Where did they all come from?

[Tenrocca]

We recently had an interesting discussion on the forum on the body source for a couple of kit manufacturers. Got me thinking where did all the various kit manufacturers get their bodies from? To me the Gforce\RMC\Homebush all look pretty simlilar (And the most correct?), the DRB and Harrison are a little flatter, with more rounded rear gaurds, while the CR is chunkier, higher in the doors and less rounded at the back.

To me the fact that one was copied from another isnt an issue - as has been said before, there all copies of something - but it would interesting to know the source of these different shapes.

Cheers.

[400TT]

Sorry, have you actually seen a Harrison.

Harrison is very similiar to RMC shape, just with some nice little flaring etc. Nothing like a DRB at all.

DRB is definitely a flatter shape. Has the distinctive flat sill at rear of the engine bay. The main advantage of DRB is the wheel profile, all DRB's look like they are dumped into the weeds due to minimal(nill) gap between bottom guards & tyres. The Boss DRB I saw earlier this week had over 100mm clearance even with underbody exhaust and tyres were nicely tucked up into the guards. It looked low. Mind you it helped that it had massive 335's on the rear.

My favourite shape is Robnell, although it's not without it's problems as well. The front guards droop on the Robnell and still suffers from the inconsistancy that most of our bodies here seem to suffer from. eg the rear light mounds are noticeably different heights on Robnell. My favourite feature on Robnell is that nicely flared rear guard, we copied that on our original DRB.

Classic Revival is a very tall body, which you can see in the doors etc. Makes for easy fitment of engines etc.

Most of the manufacturers have changed body shapes over the years.
DRB up to 1995 had smaller rear guard body shape.
Classic Revival changed shapes a while back.
RMC has also changed shape. I actually preferred the earlier RMC shape.
etc etc

I won't go into the sources of the bodies as I don't think that's going to be constructive. Discussing the differences is much more interesting...

From my observations each different body shape has features that are more original than others.

The Superformance looks nothing like any of the other Cobra's here, but I've heard it was scanned from one side of an original car. One side only due to the original bodies not being symetrical.

I would love to have a Kirkham. Some lucky bugger here in Aus has one as the local car broker here in Bris has brought one in.

[Tenrocca]

Sorry, have you actually seen a Harrison

Honestly - not that many, just from some angles I thought they can look a little similar - With the sill treatment maybe the doors look a little lower (like a DRB) then they actually are?

Im terms of determining which shape is more correct though, I reckon if we knew the source of the different shapes, then by that we could determine which one is most like an original? Im sure none of these guys carved up a clay mold in the garage?

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Im terms of determining which shape is more correct though, I reckon if we knew the source of the different shapes, then by that we could determine which one is most like an original? Im sure none of these guys carved up a clay mold in the garage?

Hmm, don't be so sure. Denis Bedford made a scale measurement of a model car, to design that XJ13 replica. It was considered a very accurate model and rumour has it that the body is accurate to 1/4" of an inch.

Actually doubt they would go to that much trouble for a Cobra as there are bodies around to copy. But it does make you think.

[Tenrocca]

has it that the body is accurate to 1/4" of an inch

Interesting rumour - as how the hell could anyone prove or disproove it? Not a lot of XJ13's around to compare to!

Heres alink the a profile comparison on the ERA web site Id like to see something like this on the Australian manufacurers. For a newby the question of which is most like the original has to be the one most asked.

http://www.erareplicas.com/427/profiles/index.htm

[400TT]

Yeah, considering there is only one original XJ13 and it was completely rebuilt. But the guys involved here are not ones that normally brag.

That ERA page site is a fantastic reference. Although just touches the surface on the differences.

If I remember I should see about snapping some photos at the Nationals and putting a page up.

[Tenrocca]

I reckon that would be a great idea

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

I reckon that would be a great idea

I knew you would like it. Thanks for that link, I had not actually seen that ERA page before.

I would go one step further and take front & rear shots as well. Then allow you to pick and choose which kit type photos to compare. So you could compare CR to Harrison etc etc. Now just got to get photos from the right angles of that original 427 Cobra up here. Or even better that original 427 S/C that is still rumoured to be here on the coast.

[spookypt]

Craig, I maybe wrong but I think Unique Cars had a pic of a Bowdens car in the front blurbs on the latest Unique Cars mag. It was out racing at the historic drags or something. They said he'd driven it from the Goldy BUT I thought the green one resided on The Sunny Coast.

SpookyPT
Matt

P.s.. So happy with the way my car looked on Sunday.. Bling!

P.s.s. Now Scotty reckons I'm only a waxer not a racer. How am I gonna shake that tag! Surely going to the Nats is worthy of some racer points..

[400TT]

Originally Posted by spookypt

Craig, I maybe wrong but I think Unique Cars had a pic of a Bowdens car in the front blurbs on the latest Unique Cars mag. It was out racing at the historic drags or something. They said he'd driven it from the Goldy BUT I thought the green one resided on The Sunny Coast.

Yeah, all of the Bowdens cars are kept up at their property at Buderim(Sunny Coast). Except for the ones that are loaned out to various museums.

Bowdens own 2 x 289 Cobra's, a Mark I & Mark II.

Rob Sherrard owns the original 427, he is in Brisbane.

Don't know the name of the owner of the 427 SC, but it's on the Gold Coast.

I have plenty of photos of these Cobra's, but doubt I have enough that are suitable. I need to make sure that all side shots are taken from the same height and position front/back on the vehicle. Same goes for front & rear shots.

Yeah, your Cobra certainly looked fantastic at the breakfast, a credit to you and OzVenom. The guys at the Nationals will be in for a treat later this month.

[BMK]

400T

Craig,



I didn't know that Dennis made the buck for the XJ13 Jaguar. I seriously thought that he had purchased the body from one of the US. kitcar companies. Well done.

I have spent a little time looking over one in the States, and even spoke with Chris in the Adelaide Cobra club who reworks Jaguars and restores Jaguars about the XJ13's.



Just love the look of the rear engine and all.

Bernie

[schipps]

Craig,

Sounds like a fantastic idea to take photos at the nationals of the different kits for all of us newbies.

[400TT]

Originally Posted by Bernie Knight

I didn't know that Dennis made the buck for the XJ13 Jaguar. I seriously thought that he had purchased the body from one of the US. kitcar companies. Well done.

He sold the design, jigs, moulds, rights etc to http://www.sportscarfactory.com/

[David Hodgson]

An engineer here in Canberra built an XJ 13 replica from scratch in the early 90's. Fantastic bit of work, all riveted alloy panels etc.

On the Cobra's, I'm not professing to be an expert, but having been a blinding passion of mine since the early 80's, I have 9 or 10 books and have read and researched plenty on Cobra's.
I feel the closest looking body in side pofile to the original is Bryan's Homebush body, also Python and RC. These do not droop in the rear, like the DAX, G-Force, RMC, Classic Glass, and Wooley/Evans bodies. Of these the Dax and G-force are dead ringers except the rear drops too much, the rest have modified the rear guards or flared the front gaurds. Classic Revival we all agree has been massaged a fair bit, and I don't know the origins of the Harrison but it does not appear as "pumped" as some. Robnell too droops in the rear as well as the nose, and the latest DRB is a lot better looking than the early ones. Even the Auto Styling body was closer than DRB. There was another one available in the 80's, the name of which escapes me for now, but it looked a bit squashed like the D-Type from QLD.

The ERA and Unique pics in that link are dead ringers for my G-Force. If you compare the slope and depth of the rear quarter on the ERA and the CSX4000 above it (in the pics in the link) you will see what i mean about the droop. Aussie D-Type looks a lot like that Excaliber.

Craig, I also have a couple of shots of the red Briggs 427SC, which i believe has left the country, along with Cameron's RMC from the '94? run to the eagle at the end of the Classic Adelaide rally. I wqasn't able to get side shots but I'm sure I've got front and rear. Also plenty of shots in the books I have.

Would you also believe there has been at least 17 Aust supliers of Cobra kits, I'll find out the name of the one I can't remember and then list them. In the mean time you guys might like to have a crack at the list yourselves.

[Cameron Parsons]

Ummm Cameron's RMC?

If that's me you are talking about, as I did compete in the Dutton GP Rally in 94, and did climb to the Eagle, with and against Briggs 427, mine was a DAX.

I also have a bunch of pictures somewhere, of my car and Peter's car side by side. If I recall correctly, they were damn close.

I even went for a spin in Peter's 427 in Melbourne a few years later when Glen Coad was doing some work on it.

Cameron

[David Hodgson]

Sorry Cameron, I do now recall it was a Dax, with a rather tall bonnet scoop.

What was under that scoop?

Was your Dax from the supplier in the Blue Mountains, or did you import it yourself?

There was a guy supplying Dax from Leura or Lawson? in the late 80's. Some long serving NSW addicts ended upwith a couple, Kevin Walker and joe Peckham.

[Cameron Parsons]

There was a B&M 144 Blower on a 302 under the hood. To make it all fit, we fabricated a hood out of Aluminium, using Peters 427 as a model for the frame and fitting.

It was one of my many motoring mistakes to sell that car, I believe the guy who owned Lombards paper in Melbourne ended up owning it and had a big off at Morwell Hillclimb.

I loved that car..

Oh, and I love this one too

And I guarantee I'm going to LOVE the next one

Cameron

[CR427]

It is interesting to note where they all came from. Most of the manufacturers say they came from original ones but this is just not the case. A llittle history -
Way back in the very early 80's ( can't remember exactly what year) a plug for the Arntz was imported ( from US ) by a group of 3 friends ( my father was a very good friend of one ) A mould was taken of this black Arntz and 3 bodies produced for the 3 friends. The mould was then sold to RMC in WA.
Hence the RMC is a direct copy of the old Arnts - latter to become Buttler.
The Python was also copied from this same black Arntz.
Hombush fibreglass copied the Python through a customer ( Hombush panel beater ) who purchased one.
Classic Glass was also flipped from this same black Arntz/RMC copy.
Robnell was a direct copy both in chassis & body from the English RAM which was designed by that famous fellow from Reynard Race Cars. They just changed the chassis to square tube. Even kept the BMC alloy pedal box!
Classic Revival's old body was from this same line. Their new body ( The SC ) is from a mould they imported from Canada ! This mould was produced by a fellow in the States who has both a 427SC & a 289 - luckey bugger. He wanted a replica of his SC so that he could race it rather than risk the original. I understand that the mould was also used by one of the big Cobra manufacturers in the US to start their shop before ending up in Canada.
Don't know where the others came from, except to say that those DRB's sure don't look right do they?
Chris

[Tenrocca]

Finally someone game enough to say what they know. Its all bloody interesting. Thanks Chris.

I guess being relatively new to the whole cobra scene, I dont cant understand why there needs to be any shroud of secrecy about where any of the current bodies originated from. There all copies!

Do you know the manufacturer in Canada - Id like to check them out (assuming they have a web site) and do a comparison.

Cheers.

[venom0427]

I’m not starting something here, so lets not get all hot and heavy......RMC, Gforce, Woollies, Evens, Harrison all are from Dax. Robnell was a ram, GV, RC, Venom, RCM (and I think Homebush??) all butler/arntz (refer the other link, Tony Hogg’s car) DRB clay or something.
You are right, it’s not to important as to were they got it from, but it is important that the bodies are right