L76 - MAF or Mafless

Tenrocca · #1 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 03:04 PM

I have been nutting out the wiring for my engine, and am looking at the MAF section. I at least need to have the appearance of having a MAF for engineering (I will also have have appearance of having rear O2 sensors

), but long term should I consider going mafless or with maf? Engine will likely remain pretty stock, and I dont have the budget or inclination to spend extra money for little benefit.

Are there issues with going mafless with the IAT sensor also in the MAF?

Any advice appreciated.

sambo · #2 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 03:57 PM

I've read on the ls1 forum that MAF-less tunes aren't delivering the gains on the L76/LS2 that they were on the LS1. I think it had something to do with the larger throttle bodies? Anyway you can search the forum: http://www.ls1.com.au/

Cheers

Tenrocca · #3 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sambo

I've read on the ls1 forum that MAF-less tunes aren't delivering the gains on the L76/LS2 that it was on the LS1. I think it had something to do with the larger throttle bodies? Anyway you can search the forum: http://www.ls1.com.au/

Cheers

Thanks Sambo, Ive done a quite a bit of looking on there, and a lot of the information is centred around (obviously) commodores - just wondering wether all the rules hold true in a cobra installation. I havent bought the MAF yet, but in terms of the tune, it looks like a MAF tune is simpler. I beileve the MAF is 90mm to match the throttle body. If I just go MAF - what is the minimum distance you need between MAF and TB?

sambo · #4 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 04:17 PM

Mate, I don't even have my engine yet. But from the pictures I've seen, doesn't it just bolt straight onto the front of the TB? I might completely wrong - the last V8 I worked on was an early pollution 350 Chev.

Tenrocca · #5 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 04:20 PM

I though I read smewhere there has to be a space - but I might be wrong (I often am) - someone with the knowledge will chime in soon Im sure

Beejay · #6 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 04:36 PM

I think Paul had troubles with the MAF too close on his LS1.

Sideshow will probably be able to advise.

Ben

Aussie Mike · #7 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 07:24 PM

My philosophy was: If it'll run just as good without one why spend the money on an extra component and more complexity in your intake setup.

This probably holds more true for a crate motor that doesn't come with a MAF and if you plan on getting a tune anyway.

Cheers

Michael

sambo · #8 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 08:21 PM

...and whether your engineer is wise enough to notice the missing MAF.

Aussie Mike · #9 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 08:53 PM

My engineer didn't notice or mind. If he had mentioned it the LS1 has a precedent for running MAFless. The HSV GTS300 is MAFless from the factory.

Cheers

sambo · #10 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 09:05 PM

Well, since I'm using the same engineer that's great news.

Tenrocca · #11 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 10:44 PM

So do you need a IAT?

Aussie Mike · #12 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 10:58 PM

IAT (Intake Air Temperature) is a must have. The ECU uses this reading to calculate the temperature of the incomming charge and add or subtract timing and fuel to suit. Cold air makes more power etc...

Cheers

Plums · #13 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 11:31 PM

You'll definitely need the IAT sensor, when it's not connected the PCM will see -39 degrees. There will be no timing reduction as temperature increases which will basically mean the thing should ping it's head off....

All 6 litre engines had MAFs, so depending on your engineer you may need to run with it.
Mike is quite correct about the LS1, HSV had a 300kW MAFless version in the earlier GTS's, though they did use a slightly different engine, the C4B. I would think that theoretically you should be able to say that you're running the HSV 300kW program and get away with it.

sideshow · #14 (**permalink**) 11-14-2007, 11:53 PM

u shou dhave air temp sensor just fit an ls1 type sensor if goin no maf

the main thing with goin mafless is does yr tuner know how to do it

l76 maf tunes are not popular yet unless u goto someone like sams performance he does a sitload of tunes so he would have an l76 mafless

other guys i now who do tunes i know some off them do not have base mafless tunes for l76 to start with

so if u want to go mafless it migt cost u over 600 to around 1100 for a mafless tune

if u do want to run the maf u then need to buy one which is nt cheap either

u really need to run one for engineering cause if engine had one factory whic all l76 did then u need it

but ask yr engineer frst so u dont get stuck

sambo · #15 (**permalink**) 11-15-2007, 12:24 AM

I was quoted about $200 for an L76 MAF sensor, so it's not a major issue if your engineer picks it. I guess the MAF-less tuning would be a waste of money though.

Aussie Mike · #16 (**permalink**) 11-15-2007, 12:30 AM

I also went MAFless because it opens up lots of options for alternative intake setups. I'm running the same tune with my Victor Jr and 4BBL T/B setup as I was with my LS6 manifold. I can swap back and forth between setups and the engine runs fine.

Cheers

HSVREDSLED · #17 (**permalink**) 11-15-2007, 02:28 AM

The general consensus, is a L76 Maf is not as restrictive as previous versions, meaning the gains of a L76 Mafless tune over a L76 Maf tune are not as significant as previous LS1 Mafless Vs Maf tunes.

However, the L76 stock tune still run overly sensitive knock sensors robbing considerable power. Good gains can be made.

Many options regarding fitting disconnected mafs to get through 'technical' issues. Mafs are chucked in the bin daily by many L76 Holden drivers. You would pick one up for free...

I see you are in Sydney. The tuner I use charged me $500 for a Mafless tune.
Highly recommended.