Dyno run

boxhead · #1 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 04:07 AM

One of the "jobs" I wanted to get done was a chance to get the Cobra dyno tuned, as the car was still running a mail order tune from ChipMaster in WA.

Gav had organised a guy to do it for us on the Wednesday before heading to Goulburn.

My car span the dyno to 266Kw with the mail order mafless tune, the dyno guy plugged his laptop in and could not communicate with it, turned out the guy from ChipMaster had locked it.
I contacted him and advised what our problem was and asked if he could supply either the means to unlock it so it could be fine tuned or if he could email the tune to me so if we did wipe it, we could atleast reset it.
To all his answer was NO, he told me to send the ecu to him and he could return it back to a stock tune for free.
So he was more than happy to take my money (cant remember it was either $400 or $600) but did not give a rats arse that there was no way I could get the car to him for fine tuning.
So if anyone asks me I would say steer clear of him.

So Gav's guy had a spare ecu there, we fitted it and he set a base program in, adjusted fan temps removed VATS etc.
After some fine tuning below are the final results.

sideshow · #2 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 05:09 AM

this is regular occurance because most these guys are specialists and back yard guys are buying this tuning software and going round and sucking tunes from other peoples cars

trust me its easily done

thats y alot fo these top dyno guys lock the tunes

anyway i tell people now to ask before they get the ecu tuned

yr better of buying a 2nd hand ls1 ecu and getting it tuned on a dyno by someone who doesnt lock their ecus

i did hear of a guy in WA closing shop not to sure if it was chipmaster

maybe he had enough of dealing with alot fo people in the automotive world

anyway i never lock my ecus i just say here it is do what u want with it

hopefully soon we will have special software that can unlock locked ecus

anyway u live and learn and as i always say ask a million questions before u depart with your money

i guess u should have gotten someone else to do the job

heheheh

boxhead · #3 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 06:09 AM

When I had it done (about 3 years ago) nearly everyone on LS1.com was recomending him (since at the time there was no one local capable of doing it), (Have you forgotten I live in Alice Springs?)
Sideshow, I dont want to get into another argument with you but if you think it is funny that I burnt a heap of money after going to where everyone was recomending then I am happy you are so easily entertained.

LoBelly · #4 (**permalink**) 10-09-2008, 06:21 AM

Hey Boxhead

Very nice numbers (368.4rwhp) - bet you're grinnin

LoBelly

boxhead · #5 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 04:54 PM

Very happy LoBelly,
Due to the amount of horsepower, it gave me a little extra speed on the main straight to get away from Churchy.
Now I just need better tyres, bigger brakes and some driving lessons for the race track.

Plums · #6 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 10:11 PM

I know you may be disappointed with the service you received (and the locked PCM), but I'd say the tune you got from Chipmaster was pretty bloody good. For a "Mail-order" tune to be that close it has to be pretty good.

Concerning the locking of PCM's, as Sideshow has mentioned, lots of hard work goes into these programs and it's very easy to "copy" or "steal" the program. There are heaps of workshops out there that have just bought the software and have no clue what to do with it, except copy the hard work of other experienced workshops.

In fact, I had a "new" workshop call me yesterday asking for advice (somebody that I didn't even know gave them my number and said I would help them)!!! They had recently installed a Dyno and got the LSx tuning software. They said they had a cam car that was giving them some trouble. It turns out that it was the first car they had ever attempted to tune and it was a monster cam (240/244 on 112 with big lift)... I told them to ring the people that supplied the software....

Personally, I ask the customer if they want it locked or not, and if they don't I just leave out some of my "secret things"...

boxhead · #7 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 11:01 PM

I would be happy if I was given that option, but I wasnt.
I told him when he was doing it (as I took the ecu with me to his shop once when I was in Perth for work), I told him what it was for and the fact that once all sorted I would take the car to a shop to have fine tuned, most likely in Melbourne (planned trip for ShelbyFest or family visit). He never mentioned that it would not be accessable to anyone else.
I agree with you Bobby that it was pretty good to be so close to the final figure.

So now I am not sure what to do with my old ecu, I need to replace the one supplied by the shop in Mildura, So I can either send mine to Perth to be wiped and cleared or keep it and look at selling it? Or locating a good second hand unit. Does anyone have a standard one to sell?
Or if anyone has a car they are building using LS1 with manual gearbox and they have a stock ecu, let me know and we may be able to work something out with mine that is ready to go in a car (Vats deleted and mafless tune).
Bear in mind though that unless your in Perth you will end up in the same boat as me when it comes to dyno tuning.

Plums · #8 (**permalink**) 10-10-2008, 11:42 PM

The Delphi (LS1) PCM's are becoming harder to find, though you could try Holmart in Moorabin as they may have one lying around.

As you say, your best bet is to offload the Chipmaster PCM to someone that has the exact same combo as you (manual, same diff ratio etc.)...

If you get desperate, I have a couple of spare PCM's and I could sell you one of those...

alffie · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 01:15 AM

So when I go to a dyno when mines on the road I may not be able to sort any issues out with the ECU if its locked? Great advertisment for mail order ECUs, if you have problems your screwd

boxhead · #10 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alffie

So when I go to a dyno when mines on the road I may not be able to sort any issues out with the ECU if its locked? Great advertisment for mail order ECUs, if you have problems your screwd

Alfie, I will admit to not knowing they could be locked when I did mine, but as Plums has said, just specify you dont want it locked, atleast it will get you a start point.

sideshow · #11 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 02:07 AM

if yr worried just buy an ecu with std tune

at moment have 5 ls1 ecus and 8 e38 ecus

they dont stay on the shelf for long

anyway i think chipmaster sold up shop and drives round tuning cars

Gav · #12 (**permalink**) 10-11-2008, 05:05 AM

That is actually my ECU Dave!!!!
'Due to the amount of horsepower, it gave me a little extra speed on the main straight to get away from Churchy'
Didn't give you enough HP to get away from the cobra with the grandad gear box though did it?

Heh Heh

boxhead · #13 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 02:45 AM

I reckon I would have pulled away from you along the main straight (after making the bend).

But the grandad box would probably get me in the 1/8 drags (especially if you had the good tyres on)

Gav · #14 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 05:04 AM

I doubt it.
My rear end gearing was my saving grace.

boxhead · #15 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 04:32 PM

That is true, I forgot you had changed ratio's

LoBelly · #16 (**permalink**) 10-17-2008, 08:11 AM

I work in software.

To me, the matter of ownership of the tune and whether or not the tune can be locked looks a lot like a licensing issue.

The last licensing contract I did was over 30 (A4) pages - so I have an appreciation that there are many different aspects to the 'ownership' and ability to modify software (a tune).

This last contract, as with most of the previous ones I've done very specifically sets out that the ownership of the IP (in all sorts of forms) resides with the Vendor.

The reason this is so specifically laid out is that it is contrary to the default rule that would be applied by the courts, in the absence of such an agreement ( or so I'm told by some very highly paid IP lawyers) i.e that the ownership of the IP (tune) would reside with the person who paid for it, the Customer. (again noting that this is a vast generalisation)

Like Plums & Doubledip I generally want to protect my(or the company's) IP and to do so requires attention and careful management. The volume of forum traffic dedicated to this indicates that this aspect was not well managed at all.

Whether it was a good tune in terms of performance for a mail order tune or reasonably priced is way besides the point - performance, effort and feelings of ownership often cloud peoples understanding of rights and actual ownership.

I have read most of the posts about this on LS1.com.au (and here) and think that if I were in Boxhead's shoes I'd feel that I had some fairly legitimate compliants, particularly after reading the responses from Chipmaster.

I didn't see anywhere that Chipmaster was refusing to refund you Boxhead (did I miss that?) My assumption would be that if he's wiping the tune he's also refunding at the same time - no harm/no foul/each side is out the cost of some shipping and maybe learned a lesson.

No?

LoBelly

Philm · #17 (**permalink**) 10-17-2008, 04:12 PM

In our business the Intellectual property issue is a concern, allowing mediocre companies to grow on the backs of those who spend the time and money to developed new ideas and designs.

Like with the Tunes they are then out in the market place for all to see and unfortunately copy.

My 2cents.
We realized that this would happen and to fight legally is expensive and most times you need to just accept that that is how it is. Our business has grown because other than having good products our service level is as high as it possibly can.

Yes you could buy it cheaper elsewhere but our customers will only deal with us, no question.

In every transaction everything should be disclosed, if you don't it will only end in a conflict.

Well maybe it is 3 cents worth.

We also from time to time have issues with our products that cause our customers grief, but we throw everything we can to sort it out, one call from our customer and we step into action. The feed back from one of our customers after a quality issue, "The units were great but how they fixed the glue problem was impressive!"

Phil

richardferguson · #18 (**permalink**) 10-17-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philm

In our business the Intellectual property issue is a concern, allowing mediocre companies to grow on the backs of those who spend the time and money to developed new ideas and designs.

Like with the Tunes they are then out in the market place for all to see and unfortunately copy.

My 2cents.
We realized that this would happen and to fight legally is expensive and most times you need to just accept that that is how it is. Our business has grown because other than having good products our service level is as high as it possibly can.

Yes you could buy it cheaper elsewhere but our customers will only deal with us, no question.

In every transaction everything should be disclosed, if you don't it will only end in a conflict.

Well maybe it is 3 cents worth.

We also from time to time have issues with our products that cause our customers grief, but we throw everything we can to sort it out, one call from our customer and we step into action. The feed back from one of our customers after a quality issue, "The units were great but how they fixed the glue problem was impressive!"

Phil

That Phil Mizzi knows his glue

NASSTY · #19 (**permalink**) 10-12-2008, 07:44 PM

Personally, I think it's important to have the ability to fine tune. Chassis dynos can only approximate the loads experienced on an engine when on the road.

Cheers
Al

OZCOBRA · #20 (**permalink**) 10-16-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxhead

One of the "jobs" I wanted to get done was a chance to get the Cobra dyno tuned, as the car was still running a mail order tune from ChipMaster in WA.

Gav had organised a guy to do it for us on the Wednesday before heading to Goulburn.

My car span the dyno to 266Kw with the mail order mafless tune, the dyno guy plugged his laptop in and could not communicate with it, turned out the guy from ChipMaster had locked it.
I contacted him and advised what our problem was and asked if he could supply either the means to unlock it so it could be fine tuned or if he could email the tune to me so if we did wipe it, we could atleast reset it.
To all his answer was NO, he told me to send the ecu to him and he could return it back to a stock tune for free.
So he was more than happy to take my money (cant remember it was either $400 or $600) but did not give a rats arse that there was no way I could get the car to him for fine tuning.
So if anyone asks me I would say steer clear of him.

So Gav's guy had a spare ecu there, we fitted it and he set a base program in, adjusted fan temps removed VATS etc.
After some fine tuning below are the final results.

Very RESPECTABLE numbers Boxhead....Look forward to seeing the future developement!!!

Now I've just noticed your account has been Suspended

,after the little spat on LS1 with Chipmaster .....A bit week when you can't call into question suppliers of performance gear...and you were as it was only quoting your experience....gota say i'm on your side with this one!!!

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