Seperate Swirl Pot

[stephen low]

Gregg

Somewhat the same as Paul's I had Marty retro mod my GForce steel tank to accept a BA V8 pump with self swirl pot.

Top of tank needed some funny work cause of the design but pump inside the swirl pot sits flat on the bottom of the tank. Had no issues though I don't think I had the tank absolutely low in the period I was driving.

Only difference I will make when I get a new tank fabricated is to have the swirl pot sit in a lowered section for full collection.

I had a Bosch 044 in a rubber mount and it was still noisy.

If you can go in tank do it!!

Cheers

[gjkrv8]

Slowy, I think in tank is defiinitely the go for getting rid of noisy external Bosch 044 pump.

I do like the external swirl pot mentioned by Rebel1 and Boxhead as this is quite neat having the pump/reg inside it . Means I have to do some slight re-plumbing but not too bad.

I need to have a look at the depth of my tank to see what options I have. I am suspicious that my tank might be too shallow.

Slowy or Paul -do you happen to know the dimensions of the VZ or BA in tank pump?

Thanks for the suggestions.

Rgds

Gregg

[Baz]

Gregg,

This may help you out and is exactly what Sideshow is talking about.

My tank is aluminium with a 75 litre capacity. I retreived the VDO Fuel Pump, Sender Unit an Swirl Pot from a VS V8 Commodore. The Swirl Pot was fitted to the base of the tank and the Fuel Pickup Line goes straight to the bottom of that Swirl Pot. This setup is part of the Sender Unit and this is what you see in the accompanying photo.

Two Fuel Lines are connected to that Sender Unit and they both go to the adjustable Fuelab Fuel Regulator which is set to 60 lbs pressure. The top hose goes through the Fuel Regulator ton a single line to the engine while the bottom hose goes into the Fuel Regulator then returns to the Swirl Pot if the pressure increases to more than 60lbs.

We selected this setup as it is far quieter and hopefully more reliable than having an external Swirl Pot and Fuel Pump.

Baz

[WKB]

Gregg,
The tank in the 540 is 200mm deep and fits the BA/BF pump. The tank in my Harrison is 210mm deep and uses a VZ Commodore Ute pump(the pump from the sedans are longer), although I had to shorten the sprung loaded locoating tubes a bit to fit.
If you use a Falcon pump and require a fuel sender the ute pump has the sender attached to the pump, the sedan pump is just the pump as it uses a remote sender. The Holden pump has the sender attached.

Paul,
The VZ ute pump looks completly different to the crewman pump. From the picture of the pump in your gallery it looks as though the
flange around the top of both pumps are the same. The fabricator of the tank come up with a good idea in the way he held the pump down without using the O ring and circlip.

Warren

[C0braed]

nothing wrong with pressure in the surge tank but if it is connected to your regulator return line then that is pressure working on the back of the regulator as it then becomes a closed loop from the pump outlet to the return into the tank.
On another note your fuel lines could need some more clamps as I think the regs call for a clamp/support every 300mm

[Aussie Mike]

OK, that makes sense. I don't imagine it should be a problem as long as the pressure in the swirl pot was less than the pressure at the rails. LS1 runs at 4 Bar at the rails where most Ford fuel systems run at 3 Bar.

Is that an ADR reg on the fuel lines?

Cheers

[Philm]

I thought the 300mm rule was for brake lines?


Phil

[boxhead]

If thats the case Phil I beter add a few more clamps.

[C0braed]

I think the 300mm rule applies to both brake and fuel lines

[stephen low]

Gregg

I'll be dropping into Marty's tomorrow so I'll try and measure my tank, but as I said I had Marty cut the top down to enable the pump to reach the base. The BA version has variable height like many of those pumps and sits in its own swirl chamber.

I just ditched the fuel sensing arm in favour of the vdo fittings I had bought.

So a V8 pump for a 5.4 l in a 5.0 l and no noise. Does run the two fuel lines however unlike the tricky GM version but finding space for these is far easier than space for a swirl pot and second pump.

Marty would have a spare pump in his shed if you had the time to get our there for a chat.

Cheers

[Ant]

I guess the principle is the same for EFI or carb as in my case, supplying adequate fuel at all times to the engine.

I have an alloy foam filled tank with two flexible pickups with large gauze filters, set in alloy cannisters with a slot for intake, sucking the fuel up is two little electric V8 holden pumps which can be bought at any Repco or BNT as here in NZ, these pumps send fuel to a Separate Tank which has a -12an return back to tank (this may need a restrictor to give a small amount of pressure) the tank has the Bypass return from Regulator, just below the return to tank. At the bottom of the tank is a -10an supply line to my Aeromotive 150gph street pump, that has a -8an line to the regulator etc, I believe this is adequate to supply the 675bhp engine.

Regarding hot fuel being returned from the Regulator I dont think that is an issue as it is being cooled by the flow from the tank and back to the tank, I think the trick is not to circulate the fuel to much but obviously a bit more than the carb needs.

Nice plumbing job Aussie Mike!

[gjkrv8]

Hi All,

I have been dabbling with fixing my fuel surge problems with a LP Lift pump and external Swirl pot as my Tank appears to be too shallow for a built-in arrangement.

My current setup is an external Bosch 044 with external reg.

I was looking at the back of my tank where the pickup outlet is and rightly so its right at he bottom of the tank.

If I put say a Carter Lift pump (which i have) level with the outlet the pump housing hangs down too low.

In the manual it says dont put the pump higher than 24 inches above the fuel tank.

To me this implies the LP pump can suck from a height of 24 inches?.

I have a convenient mount point for my LP pump about 100mm higher than the tank outlet?

Anyone done this before? i.e. had the LP pump higher than the tank outlet?

The only alternative I could see is an inline style LP pump that doesnt hang down etc.

Thanks

Rgds

Gregg

[*Cobber*]

The carters will lift 100mm no problems.

[Rebel1]

But remember, if you have a 200mm deep tank and the pump is 100mm above the tank then that's a lift of 300mm when the tank is low on fuel.

[gjkrv8]

Originally Posted by Rebel1

But remember, if you have a 200mm deep tank and the pump is 100mm above the tank then that's a lift of 300mm when the tank is low on fuel.

Thanks for the tip.

The tank of the 2008 CR is quite shallow as the boot floor is quite low. Only about 110mm at the edge of the tank where my outlet is so my max lift/suction height should be about 200mm.

The shallow tank actually limits you on being able to use in-tank combination pump/reg/swirl pot arrangements as they all seem to be taller than my tank.

I kinow I could do some fancy things to the tank, but at the moment I am try to work out a low-cost solution.

The Carter lift pump and Surge tank werent too expensive, although the plumbing adds up.

I might even conduct an experiment prior to mounting the pump with a rigged up can of fuel and check the suction of the pump. This would confirm it all.

Rgds

Gregg

[*Cobber*]

They will lift 2 - 3 ft I tried mine with a jerry can and it is fine. Just watch out for sparks when you hook up the pump when you are playing with fuel.

[gjkrv8]

Originally Posted by *Cobber*

They will lift 2 - 3 ft I tried mine with a jerry can and it is fine. Just watch out for sparks when you hook up the pump when you are playing with fuel.

Thanks Cobber you've saved me some time.

Yes I was thinking about the fuel/sparks not mixing. I was going to go to elaborate lengths to keep the two apart.

Dont need to now as I reckon I need the pump to suck less than 200mm.

Thanks again - Thats why I really like this forum, there is normally someone who's done it before.

Rgds

Gregg

[Rebel1]

Gregg, Your setup is the same as mine. Carter lift pump to the swirl tank I posted a pic of earlier. My carter has to lift 200mm at most.

It is a good proven system as it replicates a system we installed into a mates RMC a couple of years ago.

Up to that time he was suffering major surge problems and since the new setup hasn't had a problem.

[Gav]

I had alot of trouble with the VN style in tank pump not delivering, and have now turfed it and installed an intank pump from a 6 ltr LS2 car.
The pump is mounted on the same sender as the old VN unit but I have replaced the old 5/16" solid line with flexible 3/8". The 6ltr pump is rated at probably 50% greater flow than a LS1 pump and at greater pressure.
The fuel the flows up the the engine bay with 3/8" line through a filter and into the fuel rail.
From the rear driver side of the fuel rail, the fuel exits the rail and goes to a regulator.
The excess fuel then flows from the reg' to the return of the tank.
I have used this setup for a couple of events and have had no surge or starvation issues.
It is also quiet to boot!

[gjkrv8]

Originally Posted by Gav

I had alot of trouble with the VN style in tank pump not delivering, and have now turfed it and installed an intank pump from a 6 ltr LS2 car.
The pump is mounted on the same sender as the old VN unit but I have replaced the old 5/16" solid line with flexible 3/8". The 6ltr pump is rated at probably 50% greater flow than a LS1 pump and at greater pressure.
The fuel the flows up the the engine bay with 3/8" line through a filter and into the fuel rail.
From the rear driver side of the fuel rail, the fuel exits the rail and goes to a regulator.
The excess fuel then flows from the reg' to the return of the tank.
I have used this setup for a couple of events and have had no surge or starvation issues.
It is also quiet to boot!

Thanks Gav, I am running 3/8 single rail setup with my Fuel Reg at the rear. My main EFI pump is a Bosch 044 and when I install the Carter LP with swirl pot I reckon I should be ok. Lot of unncessary plumbing I reckon. I should have pursued the in-tank option earlier in my build. But I got half way with the ext method and its hard to turn back.

Rgds

Gregg