Shock Changes - Questions

Mattsvtcobra · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 06:13 AM

Hey guys, so I searched for a while and here is what I came up with. Read through a ton of posts and wanted to get the info in one spot. Does anyone happen to have a write up on the procedure of how to swap out the front and also rear?

Car #360

Front - KYB 361005 and also do the bearings on the top with Lenforder 27309 01 009

Back - KYB KG5529

spdbrake · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 12:39 PM

Yes the KYB 361005 does fit the stock E36 upper bearings. You will probably will need to shim the shock UP in the housing as you will most likely see vertical play after the gland retainer nut is tight. Large dia fender washers work fine for the shimming.
After I drove the car a few times the fender washers deformed to the rounded bottom edges of the strut chamber and I re-tightened the Gland nut.

I used the KYB 343144 shocks on the rear. Blue 242 lok-tite on the bottom bolt is advisable.

If you can swing it I'd spring for the Backdraft camber plates as the E36 stock style upper bearings usually 2+ deg of negative camber.
Removing / Installing the Upper retaining nut on the shock itself (above the tower) is a breeze using a Impact gun once your remove the whole McPherson Strut assy.
They have two Dia Camber plate bearings they sell depending on the Dia for your Shock rod. I seem to remember getting the 19mm (large) size for the KYB. Best ask Perry in Parts though.

Quentin Z · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 12:56 PM

Both are fairly simple, though you'll need a torque wrench for the front to get the bolts to specs. I used "feel" for the rears.

For the front, remove the three bearing nuts on top, then the three bolts at the hub. No need to compress the spring on coilovers. Getting the nut off the shock is tricky unless you have an impact wrench. make sure when you install the new KYB cartridge that there is no up and down play in the tube. If there is, drop large washers in the bottom to make up the difference. I've also heard to recheck for play over time, and add washers if there is any. You will have to trim the sides of the new bearing (if the old ones were trimmed) before you reinstall (see pic). To reinstall start with the top nuts, torque is something like 16#, but I did have a small enough torque wrench, so I just used feel. You'll need a 1/4" drive torque wrench for the bottom three (I think 78#, but not sure).

The rear are too simple. Remove two bolts, replace two bolts. I even did mine with the wheels on, just had to jack up the frame a bit to be able to reach the top bolts over the tire.

FredG · #4 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 03:28 PM

I second the Camber Plates. Immediate improvement. Nice tight steering. Easy to install.

Fred

Quentin Z · #5 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 03:53 PM

Glad to hear camber plates are an improvement. I tried to install mine earlier this week, but realized I needed to order camber nuts to fit the KYBs, so I’ll have to wait until next week when they get here to install. My drivers side has about 2.6 degrees of negative camber as opposed to around -1 on the passenger side. I’ve read where lowering the ride height will bring it in to spec, but I’m already down to about 1” clearance. Plus I figure the plates will let me play with negative settings on both sides.

BTW, our configuration requires E46 camber plates, not E36, if you are not purchasing from Backdraft.

Mattsvtcobra · #6 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 06:22 PM

Thank you gentlemen for your responses! As far as the REAR goes.... KYB KG5529 or KYB 343144?

While I'm in the front replacing a few things, what else would be good to do? Tempted to do the tie rod ends, I've seen a few posts on them but the whole assembly was pictured (MOOG EV239 or Beck/arnley 1013519 - Thanks Quentin Z) but can we just buy the end piece?

My steering wheel has a little vibration to it, and everything feels sloppy in my opinion. I had the tires balanced, so I will assume they are okay.

Quentin Z · #7 (**permalink**) 06-05-2020, 07:25 PM

You're welcome!

KYB KG5529 worked great for me.

I have a vibration too around 60mph. Turns out when I bought the pin drives, the installer rebalanced them even though they were already balanced from Vintage Wheels (and I told them not to). I hear that the wheels should be balanced with the pin drive hub attached. Not sure if Vintage does this, but I suspect they do and the rebalancing actually through off my balance. So, if you have pin drive knock offs, dont assume the wheel balance is good. There's a thread about this from spdbrake actually.

Do the steering upgrade (Thanks to spdbrake again!), and you'll notice how much better the feel is immediatley, and maybe that will help. Since yours in newer than mine, you probably wont need the Heim Joint mount (I didn't); here's the links:

Steering shafts upgrade

Can't take any credit but you should consider Speedbrakes steering upgrade.

Quentin Z · #8 (**permalink**) 06-09-2020, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredG

I second the Camber Plates. Immediate improvement. Nice tight steering. Easy to install.

Fred

I got the camber plate installed on the driver's side (the side that really needed it) this afternoon, and wow, what a difference! This is the first time the car has gone straight with no hands on the steering wheel since I've owned it. the steering feels better now too. The turning force left and right is equal now. Now to install the passenger side camber plate and get the wheels balanced properly.

FredG · #9 (**permalink**) 06-09-2020, 07:22 PM

Outstanding. The camber plates make the steering feel so much tighter. The next step will be to set the correct camber as per the specs. I bought a simple bubble magnetic camber tool to get it set roughly. Tomorrow I am taking the car to a specialty racing suspension shop to set the alignment and weight balance the car. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin Z

I got the camber plate installed on the driver's side (the side that really needed it) this afternoon, and wow, what a difference! This is the first time the car has gone straight with no hands on the steering wheel since I've owned it. the steering feels better now too. The turning force left and right is equal now. Now to install the passenger side camber plate and get the wheels balanced properly.

Quentin Z · #10 (**permalink**) 06-10-2020, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredG

Outstanding. The camber plates make the steering feel so much tighter. The next step will be to set the correct camber as per the specs. I bought a simple bubble magnetic camber tool to get it set roughly. Tomorrow I am taking the car to a specialty racing suspension shop to set the alignment and weight balance the car. Can't wait to see how it comes out.

Fred

Yeah, I got the same tool. I like it, but ended up using a PLS laser and tape measure. I believe I was somewhere close to -2.6, and I read that the tics on the plates were .35 +/-.05, so I set it at +5 tics. After getting it back on the ground, I think I should have gone with +4.5 tics, but its not bad for my primitive method. I don't think it will be easy to adjust the plates once they're installed since we can't reach them from the top. I'm guessing it's probably just as easy to pull the coilover, make the adjustment and reinstall.

Please let me know how it turns out once you get it professionally done.

FredG · #11 (**permalink**) 06-11-2020, 11:42 AM

Had it done yesterday and I can feel the difference. Car feels tighter and more secure than it did and tracks very true. They also told me to keep the tire pressure low because the car is so light. They gave me all the paperwork on 4 wheel alignment and weight balancing readings. The bad news is that when I did the camber plates I replaced the front springs with an Eibach spring kit from Iconic. New rate is 350 lbs. Shop told me that is too stiff for my car and that I should look for a variable rate spring. That will be the next project. Cost for what they did was $409 which I thought was reasonable.

Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quentin Z

Yeah, I got the same tool. I like it, but ended up using a PLS laser and tape measure. I believe I was somewhere close to -2.6, and I read that the tics on the plates were .35 +/-.05, so I set it at +5 tics. After getting it back on the ground, I think I should have gone with +4.5 tics, but its not bad for my primitive method. I don't think it will be easy to adjust the plates once they're installed since we can't reach them from the top. I'm guessing it's probably just as easy to pull the coilover, make the adjustment and reinstall.

Please let me know how it turns out once you get it professionally done.

Mattsvtcobra · #12 (**permalink**) 06-20-2020, 11:33 AM

So my new front shock (kyb361005)is not fitting the retainer cap of the assembly like the original Gabriel does. It is allowing it to move side to side in the tube. Any ideas?

spdbrake · #13 (**permalink**) 06-20-2020, 11:48 AM

If I remember correctly the included cup is dropped over the strut cartridge once installed (increases the OD of the strut) then the gland nut is installed. The cartridge sat a bit low in mine and I had to add a 1-2 fender (large diameter) washers to shim it up where the gland nut would contact and secure the top.

See link for Strut, Cup, Gland nut, Shock top nut pic.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mattsvtcobra · #14 (**permalink**) 06-20-2020, 12:25 PM

I was just coming in to reply... I was looking at that cap upside down and assumed it was a shim for the bottom... but it is for the top! Thanks

SBSerpent · #15 (**permalink**) 07-03-2020, 05:46 PM

So then for the rear, which KYB is recommended? KG5529 or 343144? This is going on a 2011 build that still has the stock Gabriels. The car itself is also bone stock as it came from BDR. 4500 miles on the odometer.

spdbrake · #16 (**permalink**) 07-03-2020, 06:06 PM

The KG5529 has a higher Nitrogen pressure than the 343144 and as such should have a higher compression resistance. I can't really say for the dampening rates as that is regulated by orifice sizes and fluid viscosity. Either will fit.

SBSerpent · #17 (**permalink**) 07-03-2020, 06:51 PM

Would you then say that the KG5529 lends itself to s stiffer ride? Less travel on the upwards motion of the wheel when responding to road conditions?

Iconic has the Excel-G (343144) on their website as a direct replacement.

spdbrake · #18 (**permalink**) 07-03-2020, 07:02 PM

Possibly yes the KG5529 may be a bit stiffer but I doubt you'd really feel it.
Keep in mind the original application on the Rear shocks is VW Thing, Bus, Beetle. Front struts are VW Vetta. Not in the realm of high performance.

SBSerpent · #19 (**permalink**) 07-03-2020, 08:44 PM

Fair enough. If you try really hard, you can see some Karmann Ghia DNA in our cars!

Any torque specs on the shock bolts?

spdbrake · #20 (**permalink**) 07-04-2020, 07:33 AM

Standard Torq spec for (10.9 class) 12mm dia bolts is 135NM or 99FTLB
That being said I wouldn't go above 50FTLB on the upper or lower as your working on a single shear in both upper and lower. (Smoking the torq to 99FTLB will not make it stronger and you may end up with a 2 piece bolt.)

On the bottom attachment, cleaning the bolt and bore with Elec Contact, or Carb Cleaner and allowing to dry, then applying Blue 242 lok-tite is advisable.