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Old 04-11-2020, 12:58 PM
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Default 5.0 Motor mounts on CR I

Hi all! I am finally getting some work done on my 1990 CR I. I have always thought there was something wrong with the motor mounts in that made the motor sit higher on the passenger's side then the driver's side. I took the upper EFI (have '90 Mustang 5.0 HO drivetrain) off and from the body down measured to the valve covers. There is only 3/8" difference in height! It turns out the upper EFI intake is designed with a tilt up for the throttle body.

I was replacing it anyway with a Kenne Bell Supercharger. It actually is a little lower at the TB. But the supercharger housing is larger on the drivers side. I can cut away some of the inner liner (there is 2 pieces to the hood- an inner and the outer skin. That will give me an additional 1/2" of clearance.
[/url] [url='http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=3193&pictureid=18834']
I looked at the motor mounts. I have the 85-94 Mustang motor mounts. But the rubber pads look really extra thick. I would say almost 2".

I understand the convertible mounts are 1/2" shorter. It would be close with the inner liner cut back and the convertible mounts. That would give me an additional 1" of clearance.

I have seen several threads in the past on the CR motor mounts. Has anyone see this specific use with the extra thick pads?

Last edited by Chicagowil; 04-11-2020 at 01:14 PM.. Reason: add photos
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Old 04-12-2020, 08:52 AM
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It's been 25 years since I built my CR but I seem to remember that I altered the piece under the motor mount (between motor mount and frame) to lower the engine by about 1/2". This makes the oil pan and scatter shield sit lower but that hasn't been a problem. I did cut the flange on the bottom of the scatter shield off to make for more speed bump clearance.

I have the Ford EFI on a 5.0L motor and it didn't clear the hood even with the lowered engine. The engine has an Edelbrock intake and I had it machined where the upper and lower units meet to lower the topside as well. The bottom of the plenum on drivers side is right on top of the valve cover. Everything is tight but I think between these 2 mods the top of the engine is just a bit over an inch lower than otherwise. I didn't have to modify the hood either.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:29 PM
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When my wife and I decided she was going to be working from home for some time and the idea of being in the hot bed of the Massachusetts outbreak of COVID-19, we decided to head back to our house in Wisconsin. Its just across the IL border but in the country among summer homes owned primarily by people in IL. So this time of the year there are few homes even occupied. We feel safer in that the population is about a10th of what was around us in MA.

When we go here, I proceeded to tackle my long awaiting "honey do" list for the house here. I finally got the "honey do" list whittled down. So I turned my hands toward my untouched CR I project here.

It was Classic Roadsters 427 Cobra kit started in 1990. The 1st owner in the suburbs of Chicago acquired a complete kit and the complete drive train from a totaled 1990 Mustang HO GT. He seemed to be one of the lucky ones that got a "complete" kit shipped to him. Many horror stories abound over the subsequent purchasers not getting all of the parts shipped to them.

He assembled the frame using all new front suspension parts for a Mustang II. He installed the drivetrain and then started to mount the body. Once the body was sitting on the frame he discovered that using the EFI from the donor car created a problem with the hood not fitting over the taller intake runners. He then took the body back off and there sat the car foe some time in his garage unfinished.

He finally gave up on the project since factory support was now non-existent with its financial problems and he was an a atty by education. So he sold it to another guy in the Chicago area.

The 2nd owner was excited that what appeared to be the "hard part" was done. Plus he was getting a complete kit at a significant discount. What was not disclosed to him was the issue with the motor, as configured, being too tall for the hood to clear. The 2nd owner mounted the body (the manual was not bad and all the hardware and shim, spacers, sealant, etc. was there) and discovered the issue. Now the original company and its subsequent iterations were truly out of business. So the 2nd owner reached out to body shops that specialized in Corvettes and was shocked that they all wanted $7k-$10k to modify the hood and paint the car. Since he had his 1st kid going off to college and he had just purchased a fixer-upper home, he, as the 1st owner did, let the car sit in his garage. There is sat in a rather rustic, unheated, garage for several years. He determined that he was not going to get it completed. So he listed it on craigslist where I discovered it.

Having at one time lived in Milwaukee when Excalibur had been in business, I was drawn to the longer wheelbase where I could fit comfortably. I also was in the middle of major renovation of the WI home and living full time in downtown Chicago in a condo. So I knew I was acquiring a "future" project. And since the car had sat for so long in an unheated garage, an engine sitting in the cold without being protected can spell disaster! As a result I got an even bigger bargain then the 2nd owner.




So now I have had time to review the "go fast" parts and plan I had slowly built over the years. I took a close look at the fitment of the hood and saw that w/o major surgery there is no way the hood would clear the EFI system. But I was OK with modifying the hood since I wanted to add a Kenne Bell supercharger intake system that I had purchased some time back. It is almost 1 1/2" even taller. But adding 100HP to the motor was a good thing! It does add 30lbs to the motor weight, but well worth it IMHO. In fact, Kenne Bell is making the S/C for the new Shelby Mustangs!


So now I needed to assemble the parts amassed and mock up the fitment. First was the new Aluminum TFS Twisted Wedge heads with the Stage 2 porting I have had on the shelf since 2004. The also have the Crane Cams forged roller rockers & guides. I also had picked up on craigslist a set of new "Cobra" valve covers for the late model Windsor 5.0 Mustang. The will clear the roller rockers since they are taller then the stock covers plus the 1/2" taller rail height for the valve cover seat. These heads are 20lbs ea. lighter then the stock heads and really flow! On a stock motor w/o the porting they typically add 70 HP!

Next was the Extrude honed stock lower intake manifold. The ports are opened up to the size of the discharge of the supercharger and the intake runner size of the heads. It is really stealth in that it looks completely stock on the exterior. But it flows like the best of the aftermarket lower intakes!

I added a complete set of Aeromotive fuel rails and pressure regulator with steel braided fuel lines. Again a craigslist prize from a race car that had been totaled on a track.

Next came the supercharger. It fits with all of the parts. I initially used the stock heads and valve covers for a test fit. But since the front drive nose requires a support designed around the stock brackets for AC & power steering I knew I would need to do some fabrication in this area to support the mount.


One of the previous owner of the Cobra had taken off the original mounts to do away with the smog pump and AC/Power steering pumps. They used the simple March Alternator and serpentine tensioner mount combo. Sa I looked at the assembly I noticed the tensioner mount on the drivers side of the motor did not look right. I discovered he had miss-mounted it and only used 2 of the 3 pickup points on the water pump and head locations. I also noticed that it looked like the water pump may have lost its seals. So I ordered a new high flow pump and started to dig thru my "take off" parts that came with the car as well as the other parts from my past Ford projects.

I determined that if I reinstalled the original Alt mount it would allow the tensioner to be mounted back to its original position on that mount. I then used the March tensioner mount plate as a template for the mount points on the water pump. I had a piece of 1/4" Alum 6061 T6 for the plate. I cut out a carboard template for fitment and then transferred it to the alum plate. Using all three mount points I could now support the nose support plate on the supercharger.


Just a "guestimate" but I think with the extrude honed lower, new heads, S/C and collector headers and side pipes I will be north of 400HP. More than enough for a 2500lb car!

I will finish the plate today and reassembled the top end to finish the mock up.

Next will come figuring out how to modify the hood to clear it all.

I finished the mount plate for the S/C. It will be the support that the folks at Kenne Bell told me the snout needs.

I also had picked up an MSD distributor. Should allow more accurate ignition under pressure.

I'm going to move the fuel pressure regulator to the other side to make room for the 80mm C&L MAS air meter. It is calibrated for the 40lb injectors I am installing.

I ordered a 94-95 Edelbrock elbow to lower the TB to clear the hood. Should be here in a couple of days.

I also ordered Mustang convertible motor mounts. That will lower the motor1.2"- 1". Plus I will remove the 2" of washers the last owner inserted at the trans cross member to lower it trying to improve the hood clearance problem. He must have not taken geometry in school! If the front motor mounts are centered in the middle of the block and you lower the tail of the trans by 2 1/2" it will raise the front of the motor to cause more interference with the hood!

Next I started surgery on the hood. I realized Classic Roadster had made the hood in two pieces, an inner and outer piece to add strength and give the inside of the hood a "finished" look. But it lowered the clearance from 1/2" to 3/4". I cut away the inner inner in the center of the hood. But it should not suffer, the glass is very thick, Just like a boat hull!



But until I receive the new motor mounts and remount the trans cross mount, I still have a clearance problem of about 1 1/2".


Not sure I will yet have enough room.

I will start tomorrow removing all of the mocked up top end to get ready to pull the short block and trans. I have a heavier duty T5Z trans from a Cobra Mustang to install along with a Quick Time scatter shield. The shield is "out of date" for racing but better then the stock bell housing to contain the clutch in case it decides to let loose and go thru the fiberglass trans tunnel and then thru my legs. Both were again craigslist purchases made over the years at incredibly low prices.


The T5Z handles an additional 50 ft/lbs of torque over the stock WC/T5. I think I will need it for the added S/C output.

The T5Z also came with a Steeda short throw shifter. It should make the shifts very quick!


All of you continue to stay safe and healthy!

Thom
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:56 PM
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Default CR1 motor mounts

On my 1990 Classic Roadsters, I used the original 95 Mustang GT motor mounts but reversed them (left to right and right to left side) and redrilled the holes. It sat the motor back 1/2" off the firewall and cleared the hood.
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:22 AM
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It currently is just 1/2" off the firewall now. I will look at re-drilling the mount holes to lower it if possible. Luckily I have a spare bare block that I can use with the new trans for mock up. Just one of the motor mounts showed up yesterday, Got notice the other shipped yesterday as well. So I should have everything out next week and both mounts so I can start the refit.

While it is all out I will pressure wash the engine compartment and touch up the paint in that area, All the years of sitting had added a thick coat of dirt and grime to the area,
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:55 PM
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Today I started to remove all of the top end olf the engine to ready it to pull the short block and trans.

The last motor mount is to arrive on Monday. So I can start to look at how I can modify the mounting location to lower it a bit. I think I can actually re-drill the frame brackets and move them out to lower the motor.

Next I got the Canton oil pan out that 289fia_cobra had sent me sometime back to prep it and figure what else I will need to put it on. He had problems with it leaking. I found one side edge was bent and it would cause quite a gap that would be tough to seal. After a little metal work I have it pretty straight. Should now seal!

It is a front sump designed for cobras. It has a race trap door baffle, crank scraper, windage tray & anti- slosh baffle built in! I will need to purchase a pick up tube and dip stick for it.

I'll also replace the oil pump with a high volume pump.

Last edited by Chicagowil; 04-17-2020 at 06:02 PM.. Reason: photo
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Old 04-21-2020, 08:15 PM
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I removed the motor/trans today to get the motor ready and swap the trans. T did try the new convertible motor mounts before I removed it. It only lowered the motor about 3/8". Will need to look at modifying the hood somehow since that was not even close to what I needed. If I drop it any lower I will have the oil pan hanging way down.

I took the Motor out as a separate unit


Next came the trans


Now I can clean up and paint the engine compartment


I cleaned up the gasket faces and the engine valley of any debris.

I checked out the ID tag on the trans. Not a bad trans, but not the best choice.

ID
1352- Year Model Engine HP 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th R Speedo Input Shaft Input Shaft
Drive length Pilot Dia (in)

199 90-91 Mustang 5.0 300 3.35 1.99 1.33 1.00 0.68 3.15 8 7.18 0.668 (My Original Trans)
251 After Mustang 5.0 330 2.95 1.94 1.34 1.00 0.63 2.76 7 7.18 0.668 (T5-Z)

The T5Z has the best of everything. Hardened gears, short throw shifter, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. Best of all it has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs. This T-5 can handle up to 450 hp if not drag raced.

Tomorrow I will start reassembling the top end and the new water pump. The oil pickup tube for the Canton pan will be here later this week. I can then start replacement of the pan.
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Old 04-25-2020, 04:42 AM
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Some good news, some bad news,

First the good, I assembled the rest of the top end. And I mounted the road race front sump Canton oil pan. Its design is great! It has traps for oil capture and a built in scraper/ oil slinger system. Not quite as good as one added to the crank but better than none!



Now the bad:

Discovered the S/C hits the top of the injectors w/o the electrical connectors even on! So I will add a 1/2" phenolic spacer. That makes my clearance problem worse but I will come up with a solution since I still had a problem with hitting the hood.

Next I spoke to Edelbrock about the intake elbow they make to fit their performance EFI intake in 94-95 Mustangs. I asked if the TB mound end would accept the earlier BBK 70mm TB (its their- TB they should know). He thought it would. So I ordered one. It has a completely different flange size and bolt pattern. Plus it will not fit with the taller valve covers, the flange for the EGR valve hits the valve cover- so the elbow goes back. So I will use the stock rubber elbow to get the 80mm C&L MAF meter down low to fit under the hood and tuck under the alternator.

Next it was time to start the trans. I cleaned up the Quick Time bell housing. It has a black satin finish. So I quickly scuffed it and resprayed it. While it dried I decided to compare its back plate to the original back plate to see how much more the bottom flange would hang down since it has a bolt pattern all the way around the housing to contain clutch. To my surprise the bolt pattern did not match up! The starter motor was in a different position as well. I had bought this years ago on craigslist because it was such a deal and just put it on the shelf. It turns out it is actually for a Ford Modular motor to use a T5, TKO or top loader trans. Anyone need a bell housing for their mod motor? It is in great condition, just SFI out of date.

Next I removed the stock alum bell housing cleaned it up to use on my T5Z. Well it turns out that the front snout support on the T5Z is a larger diameter then the other T5s! So now I have to figure out what bell housing I can use or do I go with the original 90 T5,

Thom
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Old 04-25-2020, 06:11 AM
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Chicago,

Injectors are available in different heights. You may already be aware of that; I've got short ones on my 460 - there may or may not be shorter ones available for your engine but might be worth looking into. Of course, they need to have the correct wiring connectors (or available adapters), lbs/hr rating and fit the fuel rails too.

The Canton pans for my 460-based engines look fine, have sumps/trapdoors/scrapers etc etc but don't work - I could even get a quick drop in oil pressure every now and then from a flick of the steering wheel on the street. If you track the car at all you will still need an Accusump - guess who makes those?

Trying to help

Tom
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Old 04-25-2020, 11:18 AM
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Tom, thanks for the "heads up" on the injectors and pan. Problem is my current 38lb injectors are matched to my MAF meter. Will take a look.

I found a solution for my trans/bell housing. I feel a little stupid at this point. I was looking at the front shaft snout and discovered that it had a spacer ring on it. Had to pry a bit to get it off but it now fits perfect with the stock housing!



Next I will await the new longer pushrods and see what choices for the injectors so I can button up the motor and get the engine compartment ready to reinstall the engine/trans.

Thom
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Old 04-30-2020, 05:27 PM
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Today I reinstalled the motor and trans. Normally it is very difficult to get them in as a unit. But years ago I purchased this 2 ton hoist and added the angle mount. It makes all the difference! Plus I have a 54" depth on the 1/2ton extension position.


Once the trans tail is in place I can start to slowly lower and scoot it into place.

Now I can reinstall the S/C, connect the electrical and fuel/water lines and exhaust. May soon be able to hear it run for the first time!

Thom
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Old 05-01-2020, 07:52 PM
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So I got thr engine/trans back in today. Mounted the S/C.

The I started cutting on thr hood. Had to really force myself to cut into the hood.





Now to figure out what to design/ modify.

Thom
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Old 05-06-2020, 04:55 AM
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I have the motor mostly hooked up at this point. Decided to go back to the hood to complete the scoop design.


So I mocked up what will clear the S/C on my car.



I spoke to my paint guy. Turns out he is building a Fox Body coupe for himself and had need of some spares I have for his build and took it to him along with a pile of parts for him to pick thru. Should have it back in a week. to test fit again.

Next I am on to the interior and wiring the dash.

And order up some seat rails
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:00 AM
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Awesome engine but sorry...you lost me with the wide hood scoop 😢 just my opinion.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:56 AM
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Yea, I'm not realy happy about it either. It was that or make custom motor mounts and have my oil pan 2" off the ground for clearance. My wife hates it! If I had my druthers I would have no hood scoop or side pipes at all. Have always preferred the look of the non-SC 427 or slab side Cobras. Just personal choice.


I was almost ready to take off the whole S/C system. But with this S/C I am Smog legal and do not have to fight the DMV Nazis to get it licensed. Wisconsin has recently decided to change its whole "kit car" requirements. Its unsure how the new regs will fall out. But it looks like they are going to how California is doing it without the "year of replica" waiver going to be available.

The only stock or aftermarket EFI intake that has a CARB approval that would fit under the hood is a 94-95 SN95 Windsor Mustang intake which it by 20HP over the older style. That would take the current HP estimated at 425HP to 215HP. Ouch!

1994-95 Mustang Intake Manifold - 9.5 inches tall (front edge of intake at block to top of intake) 1986-93 Mustang Intake Manifold 11 inches tall. Kenne Bell S/C 12.5".

Once the car is done and licensed maybe I will change the whole setup. I was thinking of getting it completed w/o paint and then see where it goes. Then I could look at a 4bbl intake w/port injectors and throttle body that would fit under the flat design hood. HP would be down to about 300HP. Such a system sells for about $1,800. I cold sell the Kenne Bell S/C for about $2k. I have driven several Cobra replica cars over the years. EM with 302/ 4bbl, FFR w/5.0/Cobra Tubular EFI, original Shelby street 427 single 4bbl. Plus I have a 67 Mustang w/5.0/4bbl. The FFR was the most streetable. The original 427 was hot around your feet (more like being in a toaster). Loved the sound of the rumble! Felt like it was trying to "plow a row in a corn field" when turning.

The new Coyote motors are fantastic, but they are expensive (>$7k w/all the parts to make them work in our cars), large 29' X 31" tall and weigh a ton (OK, north of 600lbs).

IMHO the 300HP- 400HP range with 450lbs over the front wheels seems the best config for driving on the street.

Last edited by Chicagowil; 05-07-2020 at 04:22 AM..
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:10 AM
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I can't believe you dropped that motor in all by yourself. Nice job!! The 3-400hp is plenty to put a smile on your face.

John
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSnaka View Post
I can't believe you dropped that motor in all by yourself. Nice job!! The 3-400hp is plenty to put a smile on your face.

John
Thx. I like what you did for the door openers! I do not like the bicycle levers. Had been looking at electric door poppers. But your solution is so clean.

Thom
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Old 05-28-2020, 06:03 PM
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Been a while since I got any serious work done on the car.

The progress on the basement side tracked my energies. Contractors have now said they will come in to work on the basement, one at a time. So we got the spray foam insulation done. They have hung the drywall. They should have the tape & mud done sometime next week. Then paint and flooring.

So I install the Gas cap recess well.


Next I decided to take out the carpet and see what I had to work with. The CR kit was complete and "as-new". Would not have been my first choice to have dark blue carpet and tan seats, dash & door cards. But the seats & dash cleaned up well.

After talking to the upholsterer, I decided to see if I can live with the combo for awhile with a cost of $2k to redo!



A very "90's" color combo.

Next I will make a fiberglass shifter surround to clear the Steeda short throw shifter that sticks up 2" higher.

Thom

Last edited by Chicagowil; 05-28-2020 at 06:04 PM.. Reason: edit
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:18 PM
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Where dd you get the gas cap well? Was it one of DV's?
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Old 05-30-2020, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 74proii View Post
Where dd you get the gas cap well? Was it one of DV's?
Mr Bruce on this site has them available. I was lucky in that he had a slow moment between the slab side bodies he was building to knock one out for me.

Thom
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