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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 02:21 PM
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Default Untold story of SPC #51 in 3/07 C&D article

This thread is too long for a single tread and will post in three parts. It was in respose to the now missing thread about Peter's car #73 reported in the 3/06 issue of R & T.

First thread:

Peter’s car #73 was reported in the March ’06 issue of R & T. Peter had C & D test my car #51 as part of purported six car shoot-out and the results are in the March ’07 issue of C & D. We are less that happy with the article as the car and Roush got an underserved bad rap.

Here is my post on the Superformance Forum followed by Peter’s e-mail to his coupe group followed in turn by my reply to Peter.

I AM THE OWNER OF THE COUPE USED IN THE CAR & DRIVER ARTICLE AND WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE. FIRST, IT WOULDN'T HAVE MATTERED HOW WELL ANY OF THE THREE "KIT" CARS DID, THEY WERE ONLY FILLER FOR THE ARTICLE ABOUT THE THREE PRODUCTIONS CARS. CAR & DRIVER DROVE THE HELL OUT OF THE CARS AND ABUSED THEM. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE TREATMENT MY CAR RECEIVED. THE PAINT WAS SAND BLASTED OFF THE TRAILING EDGES OF THE WHEEL WELLS, THE SIDE PIPES WERE PITTED AND THE NOSE CHIPPED ALL OVER, NOT TO MENTION A COUPLE OF DIVOTS ON THE DRIVER'S DOOR. I WOULD NEVER HAVE ALLOWED THEM TO USE MY CAR HAD I KNOWN HOW POORLY THEY WOULD TREAT IT.

THAT SAID, I BUILT MY COUPE SOLELY AS A STREET CAR NEVER INTENDING TO PUT IT ON THE TRACK. I KEPT A SOFTER SUSPENSION SET-UP FOR DAILY DRIVER USE INSTEAD OF A STIFFER PERFORMANCE SET-UP THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE SUITABLE FOR STREET/TRACK USE. I LOVE THE LOOK OF THE OPEN VELOCITY STACKS AND I FABRICATED VELOCITY STACK SCREENS INSTEAD OF USING THE K & N AIR FILERS THAT ROUSH SUPPLIED WITH THE ENGINE EVEN THOUGH THE SCREENS COST 80 HP AT THE TOP END WHERE THE AIR FLOW RESTRICTION WAS THE MOST SEVERE. THE HORSE POWER LOSS DIDN'T MATTER TO ME BECAUSE I WANTED THE LOOK OF THE OPEN STACKS AND DIDN'T NEED THE LOST HORSEPOWER FOR STREET USE.

ENTER PETER BROCK AND THE CAR & DRIVER TESTS. ANOTHER CAR WAS SUPPOSED TO BE USED BUT IT WASN'T READY. PETER CALLED ME AT THE LAST MINUTE AND ASKED IF MY CAR COULD BE USED FOR THE ARTICLE. I AGREED BUT DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE VELOCITY STACK SCREENS AND LOST HORSEPOWER AND DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO PREPARE THE CAR FOR THE TRACK. HAD I THOUGHT OF IT AND HAD THE TIME, I WOULD HAVE REPLACED THE VELOCITY STACK SCREENS WITH THE K & N FILTERS SO THE ENGINE WOULD HAVE ITS FULL POWER. I WOULD ALSO HAVE INSTALLED AN ACCU-SUMP TO PROTECT AGAINST OIL STARVATION AT HIGH G LOADS ON THE SKID PAD WHERE MY CAR PULLED 1.12 G'S AND SUFFERED OIL STARVATION WITHOUT THE ACCU-SUMP OR A TRACK PAN RESULTING IN THE "EXPENSIVE" ENGINE NOISES. APPARENTLY THE CAR & DRIVER DRIVER PAID NO ATTENTION TO THE OIL GAGE AND EITHER DIDN'T NOTICE THAT THE PRESSURE WAS LOW AND FLUCTUATING OR DIDN'T CARE AND STAYED ON THE THROTTLE DAMAGING MY ENGINE. EVEN SO AND EVEN DOWN THE 80 HP BECAUSE OF THE SCREENS, THE COUPE DID 0 - 60 IN 3.7 SECONDS, 0 - 100 IN 8.4 SECONDS, 0 - 120 IN 12.2 SECONDS AND THE 1/4 MILE IN 11.9 AT 119 MPH. IMAGE WHAT IT WOULD HAVE DONE WITH THE K & N FILERS AND THE OTHER 80 HP! ADD THAT IT PULLED 1.12 GS ON THE SKID PAD AND DON'T TELL ME THAT IT
WON'T SET ANY LAP RECORDS.

PETER TOOK RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE DAMAGE TO THE CAR. ROUSH IS STANDING BEHIND THE ENGINE AND IS TAKING CARE OF REPAIRING IT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS AT A TRACK EVENT. THE ENGINE HAS BEEN PULLED AND IS ON ITS WAY TO ROUSH FOR REPAIR. PRELIMINARY THOUGHT IS THAT THE OIL STARVATION RESULTING FROM THE HIGH G LOADS PULLING THE OIL AWAY FROM THE OIL PICK-UP DAMAGED THE UPPER END OF A ROD ALTHOUGH THE ENTIRE ENGINE MOST LIKELY SUSTAINED OIL DEPRIVATION DAMAGE. ROUSH GOT A BUM RAP IN THE ARTICLE. THE FAULT WAS CAR & DRIVER. HEY GUYS, THERE IS AN OIL PRESSURE GAGE. LOOK AT IT SOMETIME.

RON WEINGART
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:23 PM
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Default SPF #51 C&D untold story - thread 2

Thread 2:

HERE IS PETER’S E-MAIL TO HIS COUPE GROUP:

Hi Everyone. I guess you’ve all heard that I got run over by an errant 1600-class open wheel desert racer a few weeks ago in Laughlin NV. It happened so fast it’s almost incomprehensible to understand what occurred. Bottom line is that it could have been much worse, so I feel extremely fortunate to have survived. Total rehab will take some time but I expect to be back working on 73 within a month or so.

NOW…to the real point of this letter. I’m sure that by now you all are aware that Aaron Robinson wrote a less than wonderful report on Ron Weingart’s 51 in the March issue of Car and Driver magazine. This was supposed to be a six car comparison with some of the hottest cars on the road. What it turned out to be was a three car comparison of three real production cars and a passing glance at three other “interesting” component built cars, but probably not a really fair comparison, as one (Aerial Atom) couldn’t even run on the street! The other two, Ron’s 51 and a Noble 400 WERE certainly worthy of comparison with the Corvette Z06, Lotus Exige “S” and Porsche GT3, but were not run head to head in the magazine’s subjective “Final Results” comparison charts on page 48 for reasons the editors thought appropriate. Ron’s coupe, if compared in the same manner against the other component cars by all the reviewers in a subjective ratings test, would have won hands down against the other component cars. All the real performance test data is there on pages 46-47 if you choose to extract it on your own and Ron’s Superformance Coupe did incredibly well….in spite of being down some 80 horsepower! A fact we were NOT aware of until we called Roush with the performance numbers (that evening after the tests) to ask why Ron’s engine was laying down on us. It was only then that Roush’s tech admitted that Ron’s eight stack injected 427 was down 80 BHP because the fine screens installed at the base of Ron’s injectors were limiting airflow! Prior to this point Ron had sent the screens back to Roush for evaluation and had been told there was no detectable difference in flow! What evidently wasn’t said was just how the screens had been tested. Not on a running engine but on a flow bench at nominal flow rates, which were fine for normal street cruising but not at wide open throttle. Roush later did get around to actually testing Ron’s screens on a running engine, discovered the loss in power, but some how “forgot” to call Ron and tell him. This little communication faux pas really cost us (and Superformance and Roush especially) some serious prestige points because we would have wiped the “competition” off the charts had the engine been delivering the power we had expected. As it was the coupe’s CHASSIS did extraordinarily well, setting the highest mark of ALL SIX supercars in the SKID PAD test pulling 1.12 Gs. Yes, we were equipped with Kumho V710 tires, but EVERY other car in the test, was also equipped with some sort of DOT street legal super sticky rubber, so it was an even test.

This was a very extensive test with six writers from the magazine each doing evaluative tests on every car for each of the three days, performance, road travel and track test. Each car was equipped with a log, so that as each day’s tests were broken down into segments (so each writer when switching cars could put his notes in the log). At the end of the three days each writer was assigned to write about one of the cars (the column that appeared with each car in the story). Aaron was assigned to Ron’s coupe and rather than look through the voluminous notes of praise from the other five editors just focused on the point that we’d had a problem with the engine in Ron’s coupe in the waning hours of the last day and wrote about that. Cheap shot.

The problem with Ron’s engine didn’t become apparent until the last day in the late afternoon when they needed some last minute photography in the better afternoon light. The engine began making a strange sound on one of these photo laps (at relatively slow speeds). We pulled the car into the pits, listened, but no one could discern what the strange sound might be. I pulled the valve covers to check all the rockers and pushrods… all ok. I also pulled the plugs to check for color and check for compression… all ok. Rather than risk damaging the engine further I decided to flat bed the car back to Ron’s house and that’s what we did. Ron was leaving on a trip within hours of the car arriving home so there was no time to do any further inspection. Upon return he checked with Roush and they offered to pick up the car and ship it back to Olthoff’s in NC, who would do a preliminary inspection, then pull the engine so it could be sent up to Roush’s in Livonia for a full autopsy. Dennis Olthoff was of the opinion that the engine had starved for oil, probably during the skid pad tests. Possibly so, but then why did the engine run hundreds of miles with no sign of problems during the next couple of days? Could something have occurred during the track tests? Maybe, but the course was such that oil starvation shouldn’t have been a problem. What happened? To date there’s been no report back from Roush…only that they are standing behind the engine and will return it to Ron in normal condition. You can’t fault Roush for not standing behind their product.

What I have a problem with is the coverage in Car and Driver. Bottom line….. we didn’t deliver a car that made the full three days, so it was given a less than favorable write up. That often happens with the media. You always take chances in doing these tests. However… had the writer taken just a few moments to review their own performance data and critiques from the other editors, he might have seen that the Coupe was a jewel among some of the finest high performance cars of the day. It handled better, performed reasonably well in spite of the lack of power and was a far more practical and comfortable road car than half the other cars tested. The Z06 Corvette was deemed the best overall performing car, yet it posted the lowest skid pad numbers! It’s quarter mile time of 122 in 11.8 seconds was impressive, especially when measured against the so called smaller engined “track cars”, the Lotus and Aerial Atom, but any well tuned, 427 powered, Superformance Coupe should run 128 in the low 11s , which would have put it at the top of the performance charts. Had we had that extra 80 horsepower would we have been voted “Best”? It seems not. Even with Ron’s engine running poorly his coupe was only a tenth off the Corvette’s best 0-60, 0-100 and quarter mile times. Then look at the 30-50 and 50-70 times….we STILL smoked the Z06!

I ask that you look at Car and Driver’s own performance numbers below and question what happened to their “fair appraisal”. I’ve included Ron’s analysis of these numbers to make it easier to understand.

HERE ARE SOME COUPE/Z06 COMPARISON NUMBERS FROM THE MATRICES - EVEN DOWN 80 HP:

COUPE Z06
0-60 3.7 3.6
0-100 8.4 8.3
1/4 MIL 11.9 @ 119 11.8 @ 122
ROLLING 5-60 4.2 4.3
TOP GEAR 30-50 4.7 11.0 WE STILL BEAT EVERYBODY HERE
TOP GEAR 50-70 4.1 9.8 WE STILL BEAT EVERYBODY HERE

BUTTONWILLOW
LAP TIME/MPH 2:02.70/79.2 2:01.00/80.3
BUT HERE'S WHAT I DON'T UNDERSTAND:
ENTRY/AVE/EXIT SPEEDS
SECTOR 1 60.5/58.1/72.7 59.0/58.2/71.1 COUPE ENTERS FASTER & EXITS FASTER BUT HAS A SLOWER AVERAGE SPEED
SECTOR 2 90.4/83.7/86.4 88.0/85.1/87.0 GO FIGURE
SECTOR 3 108.4/66.0/89.9 104.6/69.4/89.1 AGAIN COUPE ENTERS FASTER & EXITS FASTER BUT HAS A SLOWER AVERAGE SPEED ESPECIALLY SINCE THE COUPE OUT ACCELERATES THE Z06 IN GEAR

DON'T FORGET THAT MY ENGINE WAS ALREADY DAMAGED AT THIS POINT AS WELL AS BEING DOWN 80 HP TO START WITH. IMAGINE WHAT SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE HAD SHE BEEN PREPARED LIKE THE OTHER CARS AND THE K & N FILTERS ON INSTEAD OF THE SCREENS! Ron

I’d ask that each of you take a moment to write to the editors of Car and Driver and ask them to review their own numbers and question what was written. Peter Brock
Here is the address to use if you choose: editors@caranddriver.com
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:25 PM
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Last Thread:

AND, LASTLY, MY REPLY TO PETER:

HI PETER,

JUST A COMMENT OR TWO. ROUSH ISN'T TO BLAME FOR THE FILTER SCREENS. THEY WERE MY IDEA AND ROUSH PRODUCED THEM PRIMARILY FOR SHOW CARS AS PROTECTION AGAINST FOREIGN SUBSTANCES FALLING INSIDE THE STACKS AND FOR PEOPLE, LIKE MYSELF, WHO LIKED THE LOOK OF THE OPEN STACKS AND ARE WILLING TO SACRIFICE POWER LOSS FOR THE LOOK. YES, I DID ASK THAT FOR THEM TO DYNO AN ENGINE WITH THE SCREENS BUT IT WASN'T A PRIORITY AND THEY EVENTUALLY GOT AROUND TO IT. I FIGURED THERE WAS A POWER LOSS EVEN BEFORE THE DYNO RESULTS BUT NOT HOW MUCH. EVEN SO, IF WE HAD MORE TIME TO PREPARE MY CAR FOR THE TRACK, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF AND REPLACED THE SCREENS WITH THE FILTERS. YOU TOLD ME THAT YOU THOUGHT THE ENGINE WAS RUNNING TOO RICH AT HIGH RPM - WHICH IS WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT FROM THE RESTRICTIVE SCREENS. I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE DYNO TEST AND AMOUNT OF POWER LOSS IN A REPLY FROM DENNIS OLTHOFF TO AN E-MAIL I SENT A BUNCH OF INTERESTED PEOPLE WITH THE PRELIMINARY C & D TEST RESULTS - AND THE ROUSH DYNO TESTS WERE ONLY RUN A WEEK OR SO BEFORE. WE DIDN'T CONSULT WITH ROUSH OR DENNIS ABOUT ENGINE PREPARATION BEFORE TESTS. THAT WAS TOO BAD BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD US TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT OIL STARVATION WITH A WET SUMP. DENNIS HAD PRIOR EXPERIENCE WITH THE PROBLEM ON TRACK CARS AND HE USES A DIFFERENT PAN FOR THE TRACK. ROUSH DEVELOPED A NEW PAN FOR THE GT-40 WHICH IS NOW USED ON THE NEWER COUPES AS WELL. APPARENTLY IT IS A "BETTER" PAN. THEN TOO, THE Z06 IS A DRY SUMP. BOTTOM LINE, I AM TO BLAME FOR THE FILTER SCREENS, NOT ROUSH.

RON
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:08 AM
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Ron, I had not read this thread before commenting on the transmission thread. I agree with you and Peter, that the numbers do not make sense when you see the corner entry and exit speeds. I am glad that Roush is standing behind the engine - makes my choice easier. Very sorry about the treatment the Coupe received - won't do that anytime soon again. thanks to you and Peter for the update. I hope Peter and the coupe heal soon..
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:39 AM
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Yes, this the same C&D that still dry humps Hennessey Motorsports, even though the guy should be in jail for ripping people off with his Viper business. And yes, this is the same C&D that took a letter that I wrote to the Editor regarding a story by "my s### don't stink" Brock Yates, edited the crud out of it until it had different syntax and meaning, then printed it and made me look like a total airhead. This was several years ago, but I never forgot (or forgave them) for that. C&D is just a bunch of wine sipping, pipe smoking, overly cerebral frat boys that could give a rat's patootie about anyone or their inputs. I stopped reading that rag years ago...one of my better decisions.

Sorry to hear about your car. Glad to hear that Roush manned-up and is taking care of the engine.

-Dean
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:04 PM
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That's why I never have put much stock in any of the magazine tests........too many "ringer" cars and "ringer" drivers for their ringer cars.......you can make just about any test results come out the way you want them too if you try hard enough!!!!!!!!!!!!

real test results come from real track time by real people, driving their cars.............

David
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Old 02-20-2007, 01:37 PM
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The same CAR and Driver that has tested a TON of tuner cars that blew up, fried clutches, smoked turbos, etc. and got a "well they had a small problem" writeup! And yes, they even admitted in a recent issue that there have been "problems" with Hennesey! YA THINK????

Hennesey should merge with AC....Luby and Hennesey could spend all day trying to figure out how to screw the other one!

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Old 02-20-2007, 01:47 PM
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Other than the damage to the car, which I don't mean to downplay... if they had stated in the article that the coupe originally to be tested wasn't available, so a last minute unpreped car was substituted, (softer suspension, restricted air flow, etc.), would you have been satisfied with the reporting?

From an outsiders standpoint, it didn't seem like the car got such a bad rap.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ock-coupe.html

From what Mr. Brock states above, it looks like the original intent of the article had changed, which stinks, but they make their reasons pretty clear in the article.

"We tested these cars alongside the production cars, but we didn’t include them in the voting. Since they’re not saddled with the weight of airbags and other EPA legalities, it simply would not be fair. We did, however, list the performance data for all the cars in the accompanying charts, and we’ve covered the three component cars in sidebars."

I would guess that if you were told that this is how the comparison was to be run, you probably would not have submitted your car...

- Dan
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Old 02-20-2007, 02:25 PM
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An update on the engine damage. I got the preliminary tear down results and the engine definitely suffered oil starvation from the high G load without an accu-sump, dry sump (to my knowledge all of the "production" cars - Z06, Porche, and Lotus), or deep sump (Noble). A couple of bearings were spun and there was other evidence of oil starvation without going into all of the details. The coupe is so low that you can't fit a typical deep sump pan on the car which is why an accu-sump or dry sump is needed for the track if you're going to pull high G loads. The original pan was supplied by Superformance but Roush has since designed a new improved pan for the GT 40 engines and is supplying the new pan on the new coupes as well. Even so, these pans are still shallow because of the how low the coupe is so consider a dry sump or at least an accu-sump if you are going to push your car on the track.

Addressing Dan's post, I wouldn't have been as dissatisfied with the article if (1) it explained that all the other cars were track prepared where mine was a last minute substituion, was set up only as a street car and was not prepared for the track, (2) that the engine was down the 80 HP because of my velocity stack screens versus the Roush supplied K & N filters, (3) pointed out how strong the coupe really was (1.12 G, 0 - 60 in 3.7, etc.) instead of writing that it wouldn't set any track records, and (4) didn't take a cheap shot at Roush ("expensive" engine noises) when the car actually ran the entire barrage of tests only finally succumbing to oil starvation damage (caused by their driver failing to monitor the oil pressure gage) during a final photo shoot after the track event.
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Old 02-20-2007, 03:50 PM
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I read the article and think there is a little too much whining here about how it was written.

1) C&D could have pointed out the street car vs. race-prepped car thing... oops wait, isn't a Z06 a street car, well no joy there...

2) C&D could have pointed out the 80 hp lost, but do they really have first hand knowledge of that? Or did they just test a car as it was delivered? I see no way they could have an exception category for that, the Z06 can certainly make more power if you modified it from the test day conditions as could any of the other cars, so why make a special category for your car that, if modified from the tested conditions, could make more power...

3) I recall that they did give the data from the testing, but their conclusion was that it still wouldn't set any track records. Well, let's face it, a street car with a compromised effectiveness intake tract for aesthetic purposes will not likely set track records, will it? What do you expect them to say? Something like - "If built as a racecar, this street car would act more like a racecar and be faster around the track" -? Duh...

4) Not sure about the Rousch cheap shot... As I recall, most folks here think the Rousch is an expensive mill. If it dies and makes noise while doing so, a reasonable person might conclude the noises are "expensive noises". I think I get your gripe as - it passed all the tests and only died during the final photo shoot - Now, didn't all the other cars tested do the same thing, only without the dying part?

I get the impression you want your car not to be directly compared to the others in the article, but rather compared with asterisks and exceptions noted throughout... Why?


It seems to me that C&D was just calling a spade a spade.


BTW, I do feel for you in how your car was treated and hope it goes back together soon and brings you miles of smiles.
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:34 PM
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I disagree with your take on the matter. All the other cars were specifically track prep'd, Z06 included so don't think it was a straight from the dealer to street vehicle. As to the 80 HP, oh yes they did know. Peter Brock expalined to them all about getting a last minurte replacement that hadn't been pre'd for the track and was down power with the restrictive screens in place. They saw the velocity stack screens instead of the air filters. It ain't rocket science to figure that they are restrictive. Modified, yes - but downward from what Roush delivered, not upward. Their "data" was somewhat compromised. The coupe entered and exited the sectors faster than the Z06, pulled higher G's on the skid pad yet purportedly posted slower sector times. Did you read anywhere in the article how well the car did? You had to dig through the matrices to see and then you were left with the incomprehensible faster sector entry and exit speeds with higher G's yet slower times. As for Roush, expensive because of the aluminum block and DFI otherwise comparable to other "crate" engines. My gripe is that unlike the Z06, et al, it had a shallow wet sump for the street and the C&D driver didn't look at or care that it was being oil starved with the high G's (BTW, did you read anywhere in the article that it pulled 1.12 G's - even with the soft suspension - which is pretty remarkable and better, far better, than anything else on the track that day and probably better than any other street car they ever tested) and that they caused the "expensive" noises. I don't care whose engine it was, any engine will get damaged if it's oil starved and the driver should have gotten off the throttle. That's my gripe. I wanted the whole story told or at least told truthfully. It seems to me that C & D wasn't calling a spade a spade, they were hiding their driver's error.
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Old 02-20-2007, 04:54 PM
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I'd agree with driver error. Should have taken it off the track when the needle started to bounce. Certainly their fault and I'd be pi$$ed.

However, if the other cars did not suffer from the same malady, is your car really up to the same task as the others? I understand there was a reason for its sub-comparable performance in the area of keeping the engine together, but they cannot compare an imaginary "could have been" car to the other real cars present.

As far as the 80 HP, what you are talking about is "bench-racing", even if the pronouncement of being handicapped by 80 HP came from Peter. We can all bench-race, but what counts is what happens at the track. Being down 80 HP was not proven to C&D, but only told to them by one of the folks with a vested interest.

And expensive is expensive, even if there are reasons. An expensive noise is an expensive noise. Roush engines are more pricey per HP than some others, maybe with good reason, but that is the trend.

As far as track prepped goes, I did not see where the other cars intake tracts were modified to gain 80 HP, as you wish you had done. I am sure the other principals in the test could have gained another 80 Hp with mods as well, but they were tested as they were delivered, as was yours.

I won't continue to bust your chops, but it still seems you are saying "if my car were different, it would have performed different" Duh... True of your car and the others present as well. The article and test was designed to test the performance of the car present that day, same as any contest or race and it was not a good day for your car...
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:08 PM
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As you say, Duh . . .
My car wasn't modified to gain 80 HP. It was "modified" to lose 80 HP from the way it was delivered. Again as you say, Duh . . .
I'm saying that I felt that fair reporting would note that they were given the coupe as a last minute replacement and not prep'd for the event as the other cars were. As for the engine problem, it would have been refreshing to see the truth, that their driver F'd up instead of hiding the fact.
And, you aren't busting my chops. The facts are the facts no matter what your or my take is.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:26 PM
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Kinda OT, but I relay an expirience with "test drivers"........
You'll remember the movie remake a few years ago;The Dukes of Hazard???? well, it was filmed here in Louisiana and most of the driving scenes were done on the road course I race on...they were looking for "local cars" to do the road race scenes and we have about 15 cars that regularly race in the Vintage class, mine included....they contacted us all and wanted to "rent" our cars for the movie, only hitch was they would only use "their stunt drivers".... the contract said they would pay for any and all damage done to the cars, but "we would have to prove the damage to them" for payment.....about 7 or 8 guys ponied up their cars and when the dust settled, they were all very sorry they did...all the cars were throughly trashed, all needed engine rebuilds and all needed at the least a paint job and most needed quite a bit of body work. the owners were finally paid for the damages, but it was not easy getting the money out of the film company.... saw them shoot a few scenes and although I DID NOT have a car in there, I wanted to kill some of their "professional stunt drivers"...those guys did not give a damn what they did to the cars and took great delight in seeing just how much abuse the cars would take before braking something on them, they were total jerks and not really very good drivers to boot..............



David
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:31 PM
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Sorry to hear about the treatment of your car...

I had a 100K boat that I let a magazine test in 1999 and was happy that it got a several page layout as well as the cover, but they treated my boat the same way they treated your car.

I have the plaques from the Magazine hanging in my office, which is cool, but I would never let another magazine touch another car, boat etc...

I also noticed the same bias as you described. The boat builder was a major advertiser so the boat got a good write up, but they won't even test boats that don't advertise.

Hope everything works out.
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD
Kinda OT, but I relay an expirience with "test drivers"........
You'll remember the movie remake a few years ago;The Dukes of Hazard???? well, it was filmed here in Louisiana and most of the driving scenes were done on the road course I race on...they were looking for "local cars" to do the road race scenes and we have about 15 cars that regularly race in the Vintage class, mine included....they contacted us all and wanted to "rent" our cars for the movie, only hitch was they would only use "their stunt drivers".... the contract said they would pay for any and all damage done to the cars, but "we would have to prove the damage to them" for payment.....about 7 or 8 guys ponied up their cars and when the dust settled, they were all very sorry they did...all the cars were throughly trashed, all needed engine rebuilds and all needed at the least a paint job and most needed quite a bit of body work. the owners were finally paid for the damages, but it was not easy getting the money out of the film company.... saw them shoot a few scenes and although I DID NOT have a car in there, I wanted to kill some of their "professional stunt drivers"...those guys did not give a damn what they did to the cars and took great delight in seeing just how much abuse the cars would take before braking something on them, they were total jerks and not really very good drivers to boot..............



David
I know some guys that let their boats be used for the making of the new Miami Vice movie and they were not to happy either...
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Old 02-20-2007, 05:48 PM
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I also have a full custom '63 Austin Healey with 607 HP. Won first in class in 2004 Grand National Roadster show and was written up in Spring '06 issue of British Motoring and then picked up and written up in March '07 issue of Hod Rod magazine. The car wasn't trashed as I made sure I drove it but that article wasn't all that accurate either and didn't give credit to the people who did the major work on the car. Lessons learned - the hard way. Don't let anyone use your car and don't expect "fair and accurate" reporting.
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:11 PM
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I've always wondered why owners loan their valuable cars to magazines so their test drivers can beat the snot out of them. Manufacturers, tuners and others with a commercial interest in the exposure, sure, but what's in it for an owner?
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:24 PM
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:28 PM
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15 minutes of fame.....................wouldn't you like to see a feature article or photo layout of your car in some car mag????? I would, just would not let them thrash/trash it getting there....................

David
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