Follow up on ERA717

[madmaxx]

Holy sheet eveyone needs to chill. I would never have any heartburn buying a car from mrmustang, if he says it does or does not use oil or does or does not have a problem he is a straightforward guy and has to be since he publihses on these forumns and sells his share of cars.

Either way engine or no engine this car was worth an easy $50k, once oil consumption is resolved, ie anything more than 750 miles per quart, heck your looking at high 50's, right buyer you may catch $60k.

worst case scenerio $42k plus $4k = $46K I still see a very easy 10K profit and probably closer to $14K. Nice the previous owner divulged it consumed oil and for all practical purposes sold it for parts cost.

I just wish it was silver with black stripes or blue with white stripes, LOL.

[mrmustang]

Well, the proof is in the pudding as they say, attached is a quick video of the car, fresh and cold start up after sitting for the past week while I was in Florida. The addition of the PCV and the change over to 10W40 have been done as well.
[youtube]PJ4uPOuveYI[/youtube] (can't get the embedding code to work, click on the attached direct link)

Fresh Start Up




Two additional shots attached showing the cross hatch of the cylinder walls (I have all eight, but these two show the best). Contrary to what the seller posted earlier in this thread(and without getting into a pissing match with him), there is no pitting in the cylinder walls. Verified now by dropping the pan (to check the lower cylinder walls and look for bits and pieces in the pan) as well as scoping the cylinders from the top (with and without mirror attachment for the video scope). Motor was hand cranked over at both time. again verified by multiple mechanics now while I was away, and myself today. If Rick lake is willing, I'll get him out here to verify as well as everyone here knows how meticulous he is and how brutally honest he is about what he comes across. Have not had a chance to drive the car yet, will hopefully have time next week if we are not back in Florida at which time I'll start with 50,100,150 mile checks and double checks More mileage if the weather holds out and I have the time to drive it further. Again, could the Total Seal rings be one of the bad batches that are floating around, absolutely, and I'll report as such. As I have said in the past, only time will tell.

That is it for now, need to find the clunk in the suspension, then will take it out on a long distance run.

Bill S.

[mrmustang]

Additional changes were to the distributor which was recurved so that there is 35 degrees total timing, a change to the accelerator pump cam setting, a rejetting (I do not have the specs handy this evening). Further, a dry compression test before fire up late this afternoon showed all to be 189-190, except #6 which was at 187. Moving to a larger air filter will be part of my future plans, I know I have used a drop base and 2.25" high filter with a K&N filter top in the past. Have to make sure I have the clearance for a 14" unit....Will potentially find that out when I get back to Bruce's Speed shop and go through my past purchase file. I'll let everyone know part numbers once I have them in hand.


Bill S.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

Holy sheet eveyone needs to chill. I would never have any heartburn buying a car from mrmustang, if he says it does or does not use oil or does or does not have a problem he is a straightforward guy and has to be since he publihses on these forumns and sells his share of cars.

Neither would I...what does concern me though is what he does in the passenger seat with his sometime co-pilot, Jamettahhhhh....

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by John McMahon

Neither would I...what does concern me though is what he does in the passenger seat with his sometime co-pilot, Jamettahhhhh....

JM,

You are a bbbbbbaaaaaaaddddddddddd man



Bill S.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

JM,

You are a bbbbbbaaaaaaaddddddddddd man

Bill S.

That I am, dear sir!

Sounds like you got quite a deal on this car judging from your FE guys analysis. Wow...a set of gaskets?

Now you need to get Don/Cheeks (McFez) blessing. He is the FE guru and an ERA guy! Would love to see this car!

JM

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by John McMahon

That I am, dear sir!

Sounds like you got quite a deal on this car judging from your FE guys analysis. Wow...a set of gaskets?

Now you need to get Don/Cheeks (McFez) blessing. He is the FE guru and an ERA guy! Would love to see this car!

JM

Some time in the fall I'm going to bring the car up to Bruce's in Rockaway (picked up a 14" drop base and extreme filter top when there yesterday), he just upgraded his video scope to the new BK8000 from Snap On. He graciously volunteered to put the question of cylinder bore condition to rest once and for all. I'll post those files once I have them. Maybe I can get "DonDon" to meet me there seeing it is the half way point between his palatial estate and my coal mine

In the mean time, I'm hoping to carve out a day next week to put some mileage on the car and see what our consumption is like, you are more than welcome to join me, and yes, I already know, I'll have to come pick you up.....At least you won't have to wear a parka like the last time .....If not, I'll report that here as well, regardless of outcome (good, bad, or ugly).

Have a great holiday weekend.


Bill S.

[RICK LAKE]

Guys, I skimmed the thread. I see a couple of repairs where tryed. I would have followed the same course of repair on this motor to this point.
Here's my process I would follow. Oil consumpion test with the correct oil weight called for. If we don't know I would go with a 10-40 of 15-40 oil. This motor should be warmed up before moving. Look where the car was sitting for oil leaking on the ground. Oil dye added to motor to catch any leaks from gaskets or seals. Compression test and leak down tests are not going to be any good if the oil is leaking through valves and seals. The numbers will be high for compression and reading 0 for leak down. No help. I would do 1 more test of pressurizing the motor block if the intake seals are not leaking. I am looking for air sound pushing out into a head or intake. This is low pressure of no more than 5-10 psi. It's hard to do this hot with the motor just running. Again looking for an oil leak into the intake or cylinders.
Let's say no leak is found, If we have a carb dumping fuel into the motor, the cylinders are washed out. 100 miles and the bores and rings are done. Blue smoke special. Rebuild.
Here's what I would do next, pull the motor.
Does some one have pictures of this pitting? Motors sit for years or months and start and run with no major oil suckage. I know of farm tractors that sit this way for 10 months. They are gas motors not diesel. Smoke on startup but gone after couple of minutes.
Depending on where the pits are and we have no way to see how deep they are in the cylinder wall, I would go with 2 problems, cylinder wall are too far out of round. The high spots show where the head bolts are pulling on the block. It's not common but the differents between a cold and hot block will cause a problem. Expansion, iron goes about .0008" to .001"+ alum more.
My main issue is the Total sealing gapless piston rings. I have had problems with them years ago when they first came out. They can suck the oil though the valve guides and valve stem seals that are in prefect specs. This is OEM seals and swapped to pos seal with the ring that seals tighter to the valve stem. The vacuum of the motor was 15-17 hg. The cam was not OEM numbers and not .600" lift either. Is it possible we have the wrong PCV valve on the motor and it is allowed to build up pressure?
We have had 3-5 different driver drive this car. The word normal driving leaves a LARGE differents. I get this every day at work.
Here's what I would do, hook up a vacuum gauge to the motor. Lets see if we have a valve or pressure reading. Could be about 0 plus or minus a couple of Hg's. If this is fine, I am pulling the motor apart and start with the pitting depth and the bore out of round readings. I would also flip the heads and check for valves sealing on the seats over night. Valve stem end play, we see a major oil sucking problem. Are the plugs all carboned out in all 8 cylinders? Why heads are off doing a bore check on block in 8 spots from bottom to top in 1/2" checks. This takes time to get right and do right. If the heads hold and the block bores are in spec. I am throwing out those total seal piston seals and using a good conventional moly ring set with the correct end gaps to seal and the gaps setup to be 180 degrees off each other and same with oil rings. Use a glaze bead hone tool and run it up and down the cylinder 3-5 strokes to ruff up the walls. Reassemble the motor and breakin with the normal 10-15 minutes with breakin oil. drain and refill with what you are going to run down the road. I like a 10-40 or 15-40 rotella and a bottle of Lucas oil suppliment. This is to be added to the motor running and slowly to mix throughout. You can do the repair in the car on blocks. I like the out of car as easier. 250 mile breakin. and check the oil level. No black smoke coming from side pipes from a rich carb. I will save the carb discussion for another year. If this still is sucking oil, I'm looking for cracks.

Guys this is a nice club and everyone wants to help. I got a PM on this. I am tired and just giving the best info on problems I have had or the last 40+ years of motor building and repairs. I have had a couple of motors that broke my back and couldn't be fixed. It was said that this motor was a cheap rebuild and it has caused problems. I have not heard of these builders here as FE builders. You say they are excellent, This is what we need, Pros with a good rep. Jamo has pulled out the big stick and said enough. Let's fix the motor and move on. In the evening lets have a cold one. Bill you have my number. Rick L.