Cam removal in an ERA/FE - Page 4

undy · #1 (**permalink**) 01-25-2016, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

Valve guide wear was not a geometry problem.

What was it?

blykins · #2 (**permalink**) 01-25-2016, 06:03 AM

1. Bad surface finish on valves.
2. Guide material was junk.
3. Possibility of an over-efficient valve seal in an oil restricted environment.

Pick one or two. Haven't finished up the analysis. Leaning towards valves stem surface finish on some custom hollow-stem Ferrea valves. Talking with other builders, at least one had seen this before and labeled it a valve stem problem.

However, it wasn't a geometry issue. Guides were worn concentrically on all valves instead of in one axis and with a T&D race roller rocker arm leaving a .050-.055" pattern on a valve stem, there is little possibility of a side load.

My reluctance to give a clear answer was because I can rule out geometry but I don't have a 100% target to point my finger at right now.

DanEC · #3 (**permalink**) 01-25-2016, 06:03 AM

My guess is a a big, very-high lift cam. Detroit engineers probably didn't envision running much over .600 lift cams back in the 50s and 60s. Hard to avoid some side load even with all the latest roller rockers and everything. Running big performance stuff has got to increase wear and maintenance.

Or I could be wrong.

Edit - yep, I was wrong. Should have waited.

blykins · #4 (**permalink**) 01-25-2016, 06:10 AM

Real high performance stuff is harder on parts and creates more wear. However, in this situation, there is more to it than that.

DanEC · #5 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 04:36 PM

Lippy - here are the pages on the Blue Thunder 4V manifold.

patrickt · #6 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

Lippy - here are the pages on the Blue Thunder 4V manifold.

... which is what I have on my FE. I primarily went for it because of the way it looks -- and they are harder to get your hands on than you might think. You can review the performance details in Jay's book -- but it might be worth a hard look.

DanEC · #7 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 04:55 PM

In case you are curious the Blue Thunder 2x4bbl with 660 carbs made 645 HP at 6400 and 573 lbs ft at 4800. A bit more power than the RPM but a little less torque.

blykins · #8 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 05:11 PM

Ported BT against ported RPM, RPM has higher average hp and torque, higher peak torque but lower peak hp.

lippy · #9 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 05:22 PM

vs. the Performer RPM the difference is noise, one way or another. But what I really like about this manifold is what he said about the machining and quality, and that "all Blue Thunder intakes fit the dyno mules perfectly."

Since Brent has my heads and he can't get mock everything up on the block, I can only hope this intake would fit as well for me. But with my luck on this...

blykins · #10 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 05:23 PM

Plus your valve covers are Blue Thunder as well....

lippy · #11 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 05:39 PM

Guys, FYI, since I'm changing cams and going to a dual-plane intake, I'll be selling my Victor intake. The unique feature of this intake is that it's fully ported by Joe Craine, so it flows really well. Beautiful piece, a few cosmetic dings notwithstanding. These intakes go for $700 new and raw, and the porting cost several hundred dollars on top. PM me if interested and I'll also post it in the classifieds...

Bernica · #12 (**permalink**) 01-26-2016, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

Guys, FYI, since I'm changing cams and going to a dual-plane intake, I'll be selling my Victor intake. The unique feature of this intake is that it's fully ported by Joe Craine, so it flows really well. Beautiful piece, a few cosmetic dings notwithstanding. These intakes go for $700 new and raw, and the porting cost several hundred dollars on top. PM me if interested and I'll also post it in the classifieds...

A nice piece for someone Lippy! Enjoy the eventual "new" ride!

patrickt · #13 (**permalink**) 01-27-2016, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernica

Enjoy the eventual "new" ride!

Yes, I know what you're thinking... he's going to go through all of this and then report back "Well, I didn't shave enough off the top, I'm going to do it all again."

vector1 · #14 (**permalink**) 01-27-2016, 04:12 PM

I'd suggest keeping the victor manifold. The smaller cam is going to give you more vacuum, the dual plane is going to give you even more. Be prepared for some carb tuning, and if it runs good now I would hate to risk changing that and maybe not recapturing that condition.

Additionally, see if I read this right, you're going to change out the springs and cam, why not go to a hydraulic setup, and the money you were going to spend on the manifold put toward the lifters.

lippy · #15 (**permalink**) 03-18-2016, 09:28 PM

So here is the update: While I was waiting for the heads from Brent, I went through a bunch of things, resealed a few, welded up a new throttle bracket (actually a few), installed new pan gaskets with the stainless rail I made, installed a new cam (still solid roller, but it should be far more streetable at 248/252, .600 lift) and replaced a bunch of bolts with slick ARPs.

Then I got the heads back and received the new BT dual plane intake. Bolted on the heads and mocked up the intake, measuring everything twice. It actually fit within all tolerances so I installed it. It really looks great. Quality piece. I need new pushrods, so I just ordered some custom Smith three-piece 5/16" thick wall (0.118) with tool steel ball ends. I'd like to use 11/32" or 3/8" but I'm not sure they'd clear, so I went with the best 5/16" I could find.

Another nice thing is that the BT gives me almost another inch of clearance, say 3/4". I was severely restricted with my air cleaner, so now I can use a 2.75" x 8.125" round air cleaner instead of a 2". Should be much better, and I can get rid of that heinous Xtreme top and use the S&H.

But... I pulled a real bonehead move. I had a rag in the distributor hole but then I pulled it out just before I put in the distributor to test the fit with the manifold. Wouldn't you know that during the few seconds I had the rag out I dropped a stainless nut in. I managed to see it briefly, twice, with a borescope but it's pretty far down so I can't even get the borescope to see it with any regularity. It is toward the front of the engine on some ledge behind the block front wall. If I can't at least knock it down to the pan and fish it out from there, I'll have to drop the pan again.

I'm out of pocket for the next couple of weeks but hopefully I can pick it up again and get it started by mid-April. The last time I had the car out was New Year's Day, so it's been awhile. I've spent a ton of time on this, so really looking forward to finishing and getting it back on the road. Hope I don't need too much retuning.

DanEC · #16 (**permalink**) 03-19-2016, 04:02 AM

Thanks for the update Lippy. Good luck with recovering the nut.

strictlypersonl · #17 (**permalink**) 03-19-2016, 04:12 AM

Not all stainless alloys are anti-magnetic. Do you have another one to test?

blykins · #18 (**permalink**) 03-19-2016, 05:12 AM

I have a Pond block here now, if it would help I could take pictures of it from the bottom up, so you could see what it could be caught on. Could be sitting on the windage tray as well, if I remember right.

lippy · #19 (**permalink**) 03-19-2016, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

I have a Pond block here now, if it would help I could take pictures of it from the bottom up, so you could see what it could be caught on. Could be sitting on the windage tray as well, if I remember right.

That would be great, thanks.

I tested another nut and it is slightly magnetic, but probably not enough.

Albie · #20 (**permalink**) 03-19-2016, 11:42 AM

Maybe using a piece of plastic tubing and a shop vac you can get a hold of it, or move it to a spot where you can grab it with something else. Make sure there's no chance of vacuuming in fuel vapors.