ERA folks...please help / getting frustrated

[Kramer]

JWheaton, THANK YOU

Imagine, I tend to agree...once I got the pipes mounted to the engine, they were centered in the body holes with no adjustments. The back mounts however were off about 1inch on the drivers side and 2-3 inches on the passenger side. (when I say off, I mean away from the body).

[imagine2frolic]

I see, then that makes it difficult, because the heat would need to be applied after the holes in the body to keep them centered. Possibly when they were built they were not aligned properly in the jig. I get aftermarket systems weekly that will not line up. This usually means cutting into the system to realign it properly. Is it possible you have pics of the sidepipes in detail?

[JWheaton]

Kramer,

Getting picture a bit more difficult than I thought.

I need to jack the car up.

I am sending you a picture that shows the chain up on the block. Not a very good picture. Too much going on in the bay where this needs to be.

J

[ERA Chas]

kRAMER,
You actually have two problems going here.
"...could not get them lined up in the back."
Been here done this. If you mean the tip won't line-up in a verticle way, the pipes must be removed, the collector area heated and pressure applied to move the sidepipe tip up or down as you need. This is easier to do if you cut and flange the collector to make the sidepipe a bolt on. If you mean they won't align closer or further to the body in a horizontal plane, the fix is to remove the individual head pipes and shorten them a carefully measured amount to bring the entire pipe closer to the body at the tip. This worked wonders on mine and gave the pipes a neat, tucked look to the body. It's all best judgement and trial and error. Work slowly, little at a time. It's worth it. Add material to the head pipes to space them further from the body. None of this is fun or easy and you'll have to refinish the pipes when done. See my gallery for finished look. Sorry I don't have in progress pics, I was cursing too much.

"I used ALOT of persuasion to get them to mount up in the back."
DON'T RUN LIKE THIS. If they're under tension they will snap something at 100MPH and you've got a problem. Ask how I know. Get everything to align and slip-fit bolts in their holes without tension.

"...I noticed the passenger side pipe seems to have migrated such that pipes coming out of the space in the body are all the way at the top of the hole if not touching the body".
This is the second part of your problem. The engine torque will RAISE the driver side pipes in the hole and LOWER the pass side-taking them away from the body in your case. If the pipes now sit close to the top but not touch, the worst is you will bubble the paint a little. Remember if you shorten the head pipes as above you will move the sidepipe UP in the body hole. The correction here is what the guys said: unbolt the mounts, loosen the transmount and shift the motor slightly with a hoist. Keep checking the location by lowering the motor to sit flush. YOU DO NOT WANT ANYTHING HERE UNDER TENSION WHEN ALL SNUG. Watch your radiator hoses and throttle linkage while this is going on. Fuel line is OK. "Cheat" a little to find the sweet spot with the body holes. Do all this before you attempt to get the rear sidepipe attachment right.Hope this helps.
PS-Forget the motor mounts and chains. Your mounts are brand new not delaminated. You're not drag racing are you? The limiting bolt through the mount is the best fix for movement but your problem is alignment.

[cobred]

Dont start cutting or heating anything. You just need to take your time and make a few adjustments here and there. I put 3 different sets of side pipes on my car, all from ERA and got all of them to fit .

[Chaplin]

Kramer-
Not to restate the obvious, but something is fundamentally wrong and not lined up properly. The good news is it should be a simple fix.

If your sidepipes are hitting the top of the body cutout on the passenger side, doing the modification to the motor mount or using the torque strap will not solve the problem. From the perspective of sitting in the driver's seat, the motor will want to rotate in a clockwise direction, which will tend to cause the driver's side sidepipe to hit the top of the body cutout, but should push the passenger's side sidepipe towards the bottom of the body cut out, not the top.

If your passenger side sidepipes are hitting the top of the cutout for the bodywork, this is proof that there is likely something very basic and fundamentally wrong. As someone said, lift the motor and reposition it in the mounts, make sure you are using the correct primaries on the correct side of the car and you should be all set.

[Kramer]

Thank you all, ERA Chas..some answers to your questions:

1. When the engine was mounted and centered in the car the pipes we centered in the wholes but in the back they were horizontally further from the body than the front of the car. When I said I used a lot of persuasion to get the back tabs connected, that meant I pushed the pipes horizontally towards the car.

2. I am checking the pipes as well. I tend to agree with the fact that you don't want any tension but after talking to other ERA owners and Doug at ERA, it seems that a lot of folks have issues and everyone seem to recommend using a little effort to push them in.

3. Not Drag Racing...most like just street driving and maybe some track time some day.

4. I know this seems odd but the drivers side pipe seems ok..just the passenger side seems to have migrated to the top of the whole.

PS...thanks for the words of encouragement...to get this far and not have to take things apart is frustrating to say the least.

[Kramer]

Chaplin, I am in agreement with you and plan to start with your recommendation. The only other thought I was that even though we had her centered in the bay, the ERA motor mounts are pretty smooth and they are bolted up to the frame where it has been powdercoated..another smooth surface so perhaps the whole thing just moved...I'll let you know how it goes....

[Rick 427 Cobra]

427 engine mounts can be installed a number of different ways with the available holes and bosses on the block. Left to right and upside down. Only one way is correct. Its easy to make an error, I know, I did. Incorrect installation can cause what you describe. Before you start bending and slotting things, check and recheck this simple thing. I'm a small block guy now and I don't remember the proper key, but I am sure with all the FE powered cars some can take a quick look.

[SSSammy]

Tom, as we discussed on the phone, I had to push hard to get my pipes to reach the rear mounting straps. A comment by Bob seemed to confirm that this was normal and per design. I also did the bolt through the mount since Doug thought that was important.

I'm with the camp that thinks this is something simple. ERA welds the tabs in a jig, should be ok. If your motor mounts are not tightened, or unevenly tightened, or the motor is not centered in the slotted perches, or the tranny is not centered and is cocking the motor .. any of these things could be the problem.

I just removed my motor and sent it off to Keith for a heart transplant to a Genesis 482. I was anticipating some spring back when I loosened the headers .. nothing!. They just dropped back out of the way when I took the bolts out. I put a towel under the collectors to save the paint. So why no tension? Maybe in 750 miles everything got hot and relaxed, don't know. I hammered it for 200 miles at Hallett last month trying to break it, maybe things just settled in.

Good luck!
Sam

[The Dreamer]

I think ERA used the same pipes you get from Cobra Restorers. Like Chas said, these pipes required trimming the headers to get alignment on the Kirkhams, so I that might be an option to seriously consider. That is the method I used and I have a very nice fit for the pipes. Just make the trim in small increments.

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by The Dreamer

I think ERA used the same pipes you get from Cobra Restorers. Like Chas said, these pipes required trimming the headers to get alignment on the Kirkhams, so I that might be an option to seriously consider. That is the method I used and I have a very nice fit for the pipes. Just make the trim in small increments.

What kind of trimming was required?

[Kramer]

I haven't had time to take a serious look at my engine bay yet, probably won't until weds, BUT I do believe the when I got the mounts from ERA they already had the extra bolt in the mount Hans mentioned...but I will check into later this week.

[Kramer]

For those of you that reached out to me with your responses, I thought I would update you. I don't have any pics at this time, but will get some this afternoon.

I had some help recently and we got everything loosened and or taken apart - then got everything centered and level. When we did, we got bot pipes closer to the hole center but not as good as I would like.

The pipes are coming through both holes with about 1 finger width on top and 3 finger width on the bottom. After talking with ERA and others, i don't know how I am going to make it better than that. I am using the mounts ERA gave me and when doing so they engine does not rest all the way down in the frame mounts but that is not uncommon. I don't know if I want to go to extreme measures to get the engine a little lower, but if I do I guess I am going to have to find different mounts (those ERA mounts are thick!). I am also wondering if over time the engine will come to rest a bit lower than it is today and changing out the mounts would only be a worthless effort.

Anyway, I hope to have some pics for you later today, but thank you all for your kind words...

Kramer

[imagine2frolic]

How about shim the right side up, a washer or two might do it?, and then when the engine torques clearance will be everywhere?

[Kramer]

I have not done any trimming on the pipes yet. Mainly b/c I had ERA mount the tabs and coat the pipes so at this point in time they are simply bolted on. If I can get this right, that is my next step. I put some pics in my gallary if for some reason I can't figure this out. The net of it - with everything center and level in the car, I can barely get a finger tip in the top and have about 2 fingers from the bottom of pipe to the bottom of the whole. Take a look and let me know if you have any ideas. My only other thought was to find a way to get the motor to sit lower in the saddle as I still have room in the frame mount for the motor to sit lower.



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[Kramer]

in the last picture you can see on the top of the passenger side pipe where is was rubbing on the body when I first fired it up.

[John Martin]

I would just lower that side of the engine 1/4'' .

[decooney]

Originally Posted by Kramer

in the last picture you can see on the top of the passenger side pipe where is was rubbing on the body when I first fired it up.

That's how mine was, exactly. I made some metal plates in place of the washers for the motor mount bolts, put a level on the air cleaner, and got the motor rotated so both sets of pipes are even in the cutout holes. Your's appears to be the same issue.

[Kramer]

John, I know this may sound stupid but how do I lower the engine? I was thinking the same but....Do I augment the mount somehow? It is a stanard mount ERA gave me. It's a rubber mount about an inch thick?