ERA folks...please help / getting frustrated - Page 2

cobred · #21 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 09:58 AM

Dont start cutting or heating anything. You just need to take your time and make a few adjustments here and there. I put 3 different sets of side pipes on my car, all from ERA and got all of them to fit .

Kramer · #22 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 10:55 AM

Thank you all, ERA Chas..some answers to your questions:

1. When the engine was mounted and centered in the car the pipes we centered in the wholes but in the back they were horizontally further from the body than the front of the car. When I said I used a lot of persuasion to get the back tabs connected, that meant I pushed the pipes horizontally towards the car.

2. I am checking the pipes as well. I tend to agree with the fact that you don't want any tension but after talking to other ERA owners and Doug at ERA, it seems that a lot of folks have issues and everyone seem to recommend using a little effort to push them in.

3. Not Drag Racing...most like just street driving and maybe some track time some day.

4. I know this seems odd but the drivers side pipe seems ok..just the passenger side seems to have migrated to the top of the whole.

PS...thanks for the words of encouragement...to get this far and not have to take things apart is frustrating to say the least.

Chaplin · #23 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 11:11 AM

Kramer-
Not to restate the obvious, but something is fundamentally wrong and not lined up properly. The good news is it should be a simple fix.

If your sidepipes are hitting the top of the body cutout on the passenger side, doing the modification to the motor mount or using the torque strap will not solve the problem. From the perspective of sitting in the driver's seat, the motor will want to rotate in a clockwise direction, which will tend to cause the driver's side sidepipe to hit the top of the body cutout, but should push the passenger's side sidepipe towards the bottom of the body cut out, not the top.

If your passenger side sidepipes are hitting the top of the cutout for the bodywork, this is proof that there is likely something very basic and fundamentally wrong. As someone said, lift the motor and reposition it in the mounts, make sure you are using the correct primaries on the correct side of the car and you should be all set.

Kramer · #24 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 01:00 PM

Chaplin, I am in agreement with you and plan to start with your recommendation. The only other thought I was that even though we had her centered in the bay, the ERA motor mounts are pretty smooth and they are bolted up to the frame where it has been powdercoated..another smooth surface so perhaps the whole thing just moved...I'll let you know how it goes....

Rick 427 Cobra · #25 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 02:19 PM

427 engine mounts can be installed a number of different ways with the available holes and bosses on the block. Left to right and upside down. Only one way is correct. Its easy to make an error, I know, I did. Incorrect installation can cause what you describe. Before you start bending and slotting things, check and recheck this simple thing. I'm a small block guy now and I don't remember the proper key, but I am sure with all the FE powered cars some can take a quick look.

SSSammy · #26 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 03:11 PM

Tom, as we discussed on the phone, I had to push hard to get my pipes to reach the rear mounting straps. A comment by Bob seemed to confirm that this was normal and per design. I also did the bolt through the mount since Doug thought that was important.

I'm with the camp that thinks this is something simple. ERA welds the tabs in a jig, should be ok. If your motor mounts are not tightened, or unevenly tightened, or the motor is not centered in the slotted perches, or the tranny is not centered and is cocking the motor .. any of these things could be the problem.

I just removed my motor and sent it off to Keith for a heart transplant to a Genesis 482. I was anticipating some spring back when I loosened the headers .. nothing!. They just dropped back out of the way when I took the bolts out. I put a towel under the collectors to save the paint. So why no tension? Maybe in 750 miles everything got hot and relaxed, don't know. I hammered it for 200 miles at Hallett last month trying to break it, maybe things just settled in.

Good luck!
Sam

The Dreamer · #27 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 05:45 PM

I think ERA used the same pipes you get from Cobra Restorers. Like Chas said, these pipes required trimming the headers to get alignment on the Kirkhams, so I that might be an option to seriously consider. That is the method I used and I have a very nice fit for the pipes. Just make the trim in small increments.

Jim Holden · #28 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 08:32 AM

The solution that Hans refers to (a bolt through the engine mount per ERA) is the way I have done both my big block and small block cars. Much less obtrusive solution than puttin a boat anchor chain from the frame to the block...

Jim

Kramer · #29 (**permalink**) 11-19-2007, 10:27 AM

I haven't had time to take a serious look at my engine bay yet, probably won't until weds, BUT I do believe the when I got the mounts from ERA they already had the extra bolt in the mount Hans mentioned...but I will check into later this week.

Kramer · #30 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 09:40 AM

For those of you that reached out to me with your responses, I thought I would update you. I don't have any pics at this time, but will get some this afternoon.

I had some help recently and we got everything loosened and or taken apart - then got everything centered and level. When we did, we got bot pipes closer to the hole center but not as good as I would like.

The pipes are coming through both holes with about 1 finger width on top and 3 finger width on the bottom. After talking with ERA and others, i don't know how I am going to make it better than that. I am using the mounts ERA gave me and when doing so they engine does not rest all the way down in the frame mounts but that is not uncommon. I don't know if I want to go to extreme measures to get the engine a little lower, but if I do I guess I am going to have to find different mounts (those ERA mounts are thick!). I am also wondering if over time the engine will come to rest a bit lower than it is today and changing out the mounts would only be a worthless effort.

Anyway, I hope to have some pics for you later today, but thank you all for your kind words...

Kramer

xlr8or · #31 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dreamer

I think ERA used the same pipes you get from Cobra Restorers. Like Chas said, these pipes required trimming the headers to get alignment on the Kirkhams, so I that might be an option to seriously consider. That is the method I used and I have a very nice fit for the pipes. Just make the trim in small increments.

What kind of trimming was required?

imagine2frolic · #32 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 11:20 AM

How about shim the right side up, a washer or two might do it?, and then when the engine torques clearance will be everywhere?

Kramer · #33 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 06:22 PM

I have not done any trimming on the pipes yet. Mainly b/c I had ERA mount the tabs and coat the pipes so at this point in time they are simply bolted on. If I can get this right, that is my next step. I put some pics in my gallary if for some reason I can't figure this out. The net of it - with everything center and level in the car, I can barely get a finger tip in the top and have about 2 fingers from the bottom of pipe to the bottom of the whole. Take a look and let me know if you have any ideas. My only other thought was to find a way to get the motor to sit lower in the saddle as I still have room in the frame mount for the motor to sit lower.

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Kramer · #34 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 06:24 PM

in the last picture you can see on the top of the passenger side pipe where is was rubbing on the body when I first fired it up.

John Martin · #35 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 06:51 PM

I would just lower that side of the engine 1/4'' .

Kramer · #36 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 07:10 PM

John, I know this may sound stupid but how do I lower the engine? I was thinking the same but....Do I augment the mount somehow? It is a stanard mount ERA gave me. It's a rubber mount about an inch thick?

SSSammy · #37 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 07:43 PM

I just went out and looked, I have some similar strike marks on the top of passenger side pipes. Never really looked till now. I measured the location of the cutouts on both sides .. the passenger side is 4-1/2" from the side louver cutout, exactly per the manual, page 72. The driver side is 5-1/8", or 3/8" too low, per the manual it should be 4 3/4".

Conclusion, one cutout is too low, but the one where the strikes are is per spec. Assuming the louvers are in the right place ... Possibly, a variation was introduced in the post 730 redesign that has not been fully characterized yet.

The ERA recommended bolt is through the motor mount on the driver side. I wonder if the passenger side motor mount needs a bolt also to keep it from rising up?

Bob, what do you think is going on? I am using the recommended 31-2222 and 31-2223 mounts.

I suppose all this could be cured by a mandrel bend of all eight primaries of about 1/2" at the outboard end. Of course the ceramic would need to be redone.

Sam

JWheaton · #38 (**permalink**) 11-21-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

The solution that Hans refers to (a bolt through the engine mount per ERA) is the way I have done both my big block and small block cars. Much less obtrusive solution than puttin a boat anchor chain from the frame to the block...

Jim

You are embelishing my chain. Not a boat anchor chain. The size chain I have would only be on a something that would referred to as a ship.

cobrajeff · #39 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 04:42 AM

I know my situation is not quite the same, as I have an ERA FIA with a small-block in it, but, what I did to fix this issue on my own car was to open up the holes in the body.

I could see witness marks on the pipes where they were hitting. I drew outlines on the body with a grease pencil, and trimmed the holes to give me about 3/4" clearance top and bottom. I used an air saw, and finished the rough edge with Dremel tootsie rolls, then touched the raw edges up with brush-on touch-up paint.

I actually did this twice - the first time with the side pipes still on the car. Naturally, it was a little difficult working around the pipes while they are still protruding through the hole. The next time, I took the sidepipes completely off (I do that anyway about every third year, to respray the side pipes with VHT White paint). I know it's not an elegant solution (do I mess up my $800 ceramic coating? or my $10,000 paint job?), but, the witness marks on the pipes were really bothering me. I hardly notice the holes in the body being larger.

regards,

Jeff

John Martin · #40 (**permalink**) 11-22-2007, 06:37 AM

I had the "tork up" rubbing with my first motor (390)in my ERA , so when I wanted to changed engines (427) I would compensate .With only the motor in the engine bay , trans was connected but the trans mount bolt left loose , I put the 24" level from one valve cover to the other , parallel to the fire wall . I make the engine level and centered , then pushed down the one side ( the other side will come up as you are turning the engine )1/4 " or so , then tightened the one big nut on each the motor mount .