ERA folks...please help / getting frustrated

Kramer · #1 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 07:50 PM

Hey folks...I am hoping you (or Bob) might wiegh in and help me. With the help of a builder here in Denver, we finally got 739 fired up today. However, I have an issue with the sidepipes now. We got them installed a few weeks ago but and they were coming through the body centered though the hole but could not get them lined up in the back. After talking to Doug and other ERA folks I used ALOT of persuasion to get them to mount up in the back. Today, after running the car for a few minutes, I noticed the passenger side pipe seems to have migrated such that pipes coming out of the space in the body are all the way at the top of the hole if not touching the body...we quickly shut it down b/c this surely would damage the paint. So now I am pissed b/c I can drive it. Any thoughts?

Note: Had the folks at ERA weld the tabs and coat the pipes black.
my thoughts are...
1) get new pipes (without coating or tabs and try to make them fit, weld new tabs, then recoat and hope everything matches0
2) use the sidepipe I have and try to fab a space in the bracket)

I'd like to get this fixed tomorrow.....help?

JWheaton · #2 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 08:02 PM

My cars previous owner had that issue. The engine was torquing the pipe up toward the top of the opening.

The solution was to chain the engine to the frame.

I don't think you need new pipes. It is not their fault that they are attached to the engine.

Kramer · #3 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 08:05 PM

appreciate the quick feedback...since the pipes where centered before the engine fire at least now it make sinces...i thought i was loosing my mind...

so know I know the reason...how do I fix it?

CHANMADD · #4 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 08:19 PM

I have never heard of chaining an engine to the frame of any car. If the motor is jumping around you need new engine mounts and if you have so much torque maybe solid mounts,but chains???

PatBuckley · #5 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 08:33 PM

Did you make sure the engine is sitting level in the car?

427Aggie · #6 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 08:40 PM

If the pipes are centered and the engine is sitting level in the car you may need a Torque Strap.

We had about 7 ERA's around here at one time and all of us had to put them on as we gradually got these wonderful little round rubbings in the bottom of the pass side hole and top of the driver side from the engine torquing over. Rather than a chain you can get a regular or Stainless Steel eye hook buckle that you can turn and adjust...mine went from the driver head to the shock mount.

Kramer · #7 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 08:47 PM

The engine was sitting level in the car before we fired it, but that is the first thing I am going to check in the morning...I should have come to that conclusion earlier but guess between my frustration and inexperience I just didn't think about it.

427Aggie...do you have any pictures of what you are referencing?

cobred · #8 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 09:02 PM

The motor mounts on the frame are slotted. If you loosen the nuts on both sides and put a jack with a block of wood under the oil pan you can shift the engine a little. When I first built mine I had ERA weld the rear brackets on the pipes and one side would not line up. I just drilled a new hole in the chassis and moved the hanger. Good luck and dont get frustrated, there will be some new car bugs. Take them one at a time.

JWheaton · #9 (**permalink**) 11-16-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHANMADD

I have never heard of chaining an engine to the frame of any car. If the motor is jumping around you need new engine mounts and if you have so much torque maybe solid mounts,but chains???

Torque strap - chain same difference.

Engine mounts were fine. The engine had a good amount of torque that was released by the lifting/twisting of the engine on the frame. All was tight.

On the ERA a small amount of flex will result in the pipes lifting enough to hit the body work.

Chain (and only 1) goes from drivers side rail to block. Engine does not budge. accomplishes the same thing as the strap.

Hans-Olof Blom · #10 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 02:31 AM

Modify the left engine mount according to:

http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/en...tmod/index.htm

Kramer · #11 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 05:44 AM

JWheaton, do you have a picture of what you referencing?

This may sound like a stupid question but here goes:

The engine seems to have shifted in such a way that the passenger side sidepipes are up against the top of the body hole. My question is a lot of you suggest modifying the drivers side, with a change in the mount or this torque strap. If I modify the drivers side, I am thinking that will help with the engine movement, however won't I still have the same issue remaining with the pipes on the passenger side?

Kramer · #12 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 05:56 AM

something like this????

Doug I · #13 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 06:02 AM

Take the weight of the engine with a hoist.

Loosen the engine bolts and recenter everything

Make sure the engine mount bolts are tight, both to the frame and to the engine. Check that a mount is broken, torn or bent.

HTH's

Kramer · #14 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 06:10 AM

Doug...I plan on starting that route first...and then moving to the torque strap (of mortor mount argmentation ) if need be.

JWheaton · #15 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 06:27 AM

Kramer. I will email you a picture today.

imagine2frolic · #16 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 06:41 AM

You can also use a turnbuckle to stop the torque, and it is adjustable.

When you say you used persuasion. Does that mean you forced the pipe into place? If so then some heat anywhere along the system will relieve that stress, and fall into it's natural place.

Kramer · #17 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 06:50 AM

JWheaton, THANK YOU

Imagine, I tend to agree...once I got the pipes mounted to the engine, they were centered in the body holes with no adjustments. The back mounts however were off about 1inch on the drivers side and 2-3 inches on the passenger side. (when I say off, I mean away from the body).

imagine2frolic · #18 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 07:13 AM

I see, then that makes it difficult, because the heat would need to be applied after the holes in the body to keep them centered. Possibly when they were built they were not aligned properly in the jig. I get aftermarket systems weekly that will not line up. This usually means cutting into the system to realign it properly. Is it possible you have pics of the sidepipes in detail?

JWheaton · #19 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 08:10 AM

Kramer,

Getting picture a bit more difficult than I thought.

I need to jack the car up.

I am sending you a picture that shows the chain up on the block. Not a very good picture. Too much going on in the bay where this needs to be.

J

ERA Chas · #20 (**permalink**) 11-17-2007, 08:25 AM

kRAMER,
You actually have two problems going here.
"...could not get them lined up in the back."
Been here done this. If you mean the tip won't line-up in a verticle way, the pipes must be removed, the collector area heated and pressure applied to move the sidepipe tip up or down as you need. This is easier to do if you cut and flange the collector to make the sidepipe a bolt on. If you mean they won't align closer or further to the body in a horizontal plane, the fix is to remove the individual head pipes and shorten them a carefully measured amount to bring the entire pipe closer to the body at the tip. This worked wonders on mine and gave the pipes a neat, tucked look to the body. It's all best judgement and trial and error. Work slowly, little at a time. It's worth it. Add material to the head pipes to space them further from the body. None of this is fun or easy and you'll have to refinish the pipes when done. See my gallery for finished look. Sorry I don't have in progress pics, I was cursing too much.

"I used ALOT of persuasion to get them to mount up in the back."
DON'T RUN LIKE THIS. If they're under tension they will snap something at 100MPH and you've got a problem. Ask how I know. Get everything to align and slip-fit bolts in their holes without tension.

"...I noticed the passenger side pipe seems to have migrated such that pipes coming out of the space in the body are all the way at the top of the hole if not touching the body".
This is the second part of your problem. The engine torque will RAISE the driver side pipes in the hole and LOWER the pass side-taking them away from the body in your case. If the pipes now sit close to the top but not touch, the worst is you will bubble the paint a little. Remember if you shorten the head pipes as above you will move the sidepipe UP in the body hole. The correction here is what the guys said: unbolt the mounts, loosen the transmount and shift the motor slightly with a hoist. Keep checking the location by lowering the motor to sit flush. YOU DO NOT WANT ANYTHING HERE UNDER TENSION WHEN ALL SNUG. Watch your radiator hoses and throttle linkage while this is going on. Fuel line is OK. "Cheat" a little to find the sweet spot with the body holes. Do all this before you attempt to get the rear sidepipe attachment right.Hope this helps.
PS-Forget the motor mounts and chains. Your mounts are brand new not delaminated. You're not drag racing are you? The limiting bolt through the mount is the best fix for movement but your problem is alignment.