ERA Brake Upgrade Questions - Page 2

WarrenG · #21 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 08:39 AM

I upgraded to the 12.2" brakes in front (Wilwood) and run Super Blue DOT 4 fluid (which is what ERA put in originally). Nearly 8K miles and still working great. No noises and excellent braking. Left the stock brakes in the rear so I could run the 15" pin drives.

jose velez · #22 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 07:24 PM

I have SSBC on my very very old ERA 427 (#20) and it is better than the stock Camaro caliper. But you need James Holden weight and size to stop the car in a hurry. After you get used to modern car with power assisted brakes is hard to go back to the Flintstone era.

Argess · #23 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 07:30 PM

Thanks Guys. I have decided to go with the SSBC calipers. Only quesiton now is with regards to purging the DOT 5. Obviously an opportune time when I am changing calipers. There's another post currently going on where the ability to change fluid types without ruining the seals is being discussed. I need to do some more reasearch on potential problem first.

Excaliber · #24 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 08:13 PM

I had Wilwood on my Excalibur, power brakes, really powerful with little effort. HARD to modulate! I find the non-power stock ERA brakes have a better feel. Certainly require some pedal effort, but easier to modulate "just" to the point of impending lockup.

Dot 5 to Dot 4, the issues of purge are WAY overblown, in my opinion. Just do it!

Jim Holden · #25 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 09:54 AM

Jose:

Maybe if you would stand up from your computer desk and go outside for a little walk each day, you might develope a little leg strength. At the rate you're going, your daughter is going to be wheeling you around in a wheel chair before too long.

Jim

patrickt · #26 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

Maybe if you would stand up from your computer desk and go outside for a little walk each day, you might develope a little leg strength. At the rate you're going, your daughter is going to be wheeling you around in a wheel chair before too long.

Well that just earned you an invitation to the sensitivity classes several of us attend on Tuesday & Thursday nights.

Jim Holden · #27 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 10:10 AM

You have to meet my good friend, Jose, from that little island somewhere in the Atlantic. His ERAGT has power brakes and he wanted power steering as well... and he may still get it, too. I told him he should simply automate the car completely and run it by remote control from the pits...

Jim

Gunner · #28 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 10:22 AM

I had a friend who was restoring a '50s Willys and made much of its "Armstrong steering and Manpower brakes." Until you've driven a big vehicle with knuckle steering and mechanical brakes you ain't learned to appreciate modern miracles like rack and pinion and hydraulic brakes... never mind power assist!

jose velez · #29 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Holden

You have to meet my good friend, Jose, from that little island somewhere in the Atlantic. His ERAGT has power brakes and he wanted power steering as well... and he may still get it, too. I told him he should simply automate the car completely and run it by remote control from the pits...

Jim

Power Brake and steering is called development. The ERAGT need power brake specially if you have big 13" brakes. Even my motorcycle has twin brembo brakes in front with ABS and stops without effort. You only use your ERAGT from the trailer to the tent. Anything farther you use the Slab Side ERA Cobra with narrow wheels that requires no effort to steer it.

FIA-ERA · #30 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 06:48 PM

Oh this is getting good! Where's the popcorn!! Heck I drive the both of your GT40's with a wooden hand brake if that's all it had! Besides, what do you need brakes for anyway, they just slow you down!

To add to this thread, I'm planning on running the stock Camaro set up on my car. We used to run the same brakes on a Imsa Challenge car. If you can slide the tires with the brakes you have they should be more than enough.

I know, I know, that's one thing you can't have enough of is brakes. I have the faith in Bob/ Peter's design I think it will do me just fine!

Excaliber · #31 (**permalink**) 10-08-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Power Brake and steering is called development.

...time stopped in 1965, did it start up again when I wasn't looking?

Jim Holden · #32 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 07:42 AM

Jose:

A litlle leg and upper thigh development would be a lot cheaper and not take up Bob Putnam's time...

...as for driving, I do give you credit for (sporadically) turning a lap or two (and, apparently exhausted from the effort, then going to lunch) in your GT. For my laps, I have "Mad Max" where the only "power" is found in pressing down on the right pedal.

Jim

Argess · #33 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 07:57 AM

I've done some Googling on the DOT3/4 vs DOT 5 and changing flushing thing. Here's what I found:

DOT 5:

Somewhat more compressible than DOT3 or 4, so the pedal may feel a bit "spongy".

Won't absorb water, which has its pros and cons. The con being any water that does get in, is concentrated in one spot and can rust things from the inside. The pro being it won't "suck" water in from around the caliper seals.

Won't hurt paint.

Is compatable with all rubbber or plastic seals.

It is almost impossible to flush a system out without dismantling and cleaning all components that contain seals. De-natured alcohol can be used to flush lines, but the possibility of water being aborbed is there during the time the lines are not connected to the other brake components.

When mixed with DOT 3 or 4, it creates a "gell" or jelly like substance that can create brake malfunctions, especially in the master cylinder.

Dot 3 or 4 may deteriorate seals depending on the seal's original desing intent.

So, based on all this, I think I'll leave the DOT 5 in there for now. And to be truthful, dismantling the rear inboard brakes for cleaning doesn't appeal to me in the least. When those rear calipers need replacing, maybe I'll change to DOT 4 then.

Excaliber · #34 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:29 AM

Quote:

And to be truthful, dismantling the rear inboard brakes for cleaning doesn't appeal to me in the least.

Man is THAT a massive understatement!

patrickt · #35 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Man is THAT a massive understatement!

That was the single overriding reason I went with the ERA rear. I don't drive the car hard enough to take advantage of the small performance difference the ERA rear gives over the standard Jag rear.

Argess · #36 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:40 AM

Inboard brakes give you less (better) unsprung weight.

Inboard brakes can be difficult to keep cool under continuous hard use (racing)

So, performance sort of balances out

Maintenance on the other hand.......

I think I'd remove the whole rear cage and work on it then if it were discs or calipers needing attention. Just pads, I can probably do it via the access panel behind the seats or posssibly from under the car.

By the way, I don't think ERA offered the outboard brake rear end when I bought my car, but it looks like a nice option.

patrickt · #37 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argess

Maintenance on the other hand.......

It doesn't get much easier than this....

Excaliber · #38 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:48 AM

Strictlypersonal (Bob from ERA) has mentioned it is not that big of a deal to lower the entire rear cage. Basically 4 bolts, or something like that. I dunno, I looked at that possibility and decided I'd rather eat glass...

patrickt · #39 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Strictlypersonal (Bob from ERA) has mentioned it is not that big of a deal to lower the entire rear cage.

Thus the term "cage fighting." He's also gone on record as saying the unsprung weight of the Jag and ERA rear are pretty much the same. I believe him on this latter point.

Argess · #40 (**permalink**) 10-09-2009, 08:55 AM

It's quite easy.....not quite 4 bolts though. You also need to disconnect the rear brake line, emergency brake and 4 bolts from the driveshaft.

What's tricky, is having the car high enough up that you can pull the cage out from under the car. And you need one of those motorcycle/ride-on lawnmower/ATV jacks to hold the weight of the whole rear suspension and lower it down.

I put mine in before the body was on and before the gas tank was in, and that made it pretty easy. But not quick.