Current FFR Bilstein Shock Issue!

[ICBomber90]

Originally Posted by convincor

It was said in one of Daves post that if he where to do what most wanted, which was to replace them with Koni's cost would be around $1.4 mil.

Less if Bilstein coughed up their part on good faith.....

[RedBarchetta]

I have SPF-spec Bilsteins on my SPF. So far I have not heard that this issue is bleeding over to other replica manufacturers. But reading this thread has really lowered my mindset on the overall integrity of Bilstein management. Looks like QA1s are in my future. I hope FFR (assuming that Bilstein did design and spec the appropriate shock for FFR and it wasn't FFR that did the specing) goes after Bilstein like a starved pit bull.

-Dean

[Stoney FFR]

Originally Posted by GTA

From the way he was talking it sounds like FFR is about to start lining up their lawyers. I have the feeling we will be hearing somthing pretty soon.

Roger I have a feeling that Bilstein could afford to fight/delay FFR legal action for years and years. It's sad but I don't think that would be a realistic option for FFR.

[Questor]

It looks like Bilstein is playing hard ball. They will not be doing any repairs/upgrades to the shocks.

[convincor]

At the price there selling the Koni's for, just buy them and move on.
I did it last year when they had the recall. not that I have a money tree in the back yard, but If I couldn't scrape up $600 to through at the car I shouldn't own it. Just My opinion..

[marky]

So the point now becomes that we have all paid for "High quality Bilstein coilovers" in our kit which we are now not supposed to use.

Either we pony up to replace their bad product and bad engineering or put the car up on blocks. To me, this is not right.

So much for the mighty speaches from Dave Smith, they have come up with nothing other than coilovers at their cost...I didn't see this coming.

Maybe we will all get bigger zipties and more washers!

[Maricopa]

I'm pretty disgusted that it took them so long to figure out that going down a size in shocks was a bad idea and just 'might' be part of the problem
but I don't want them put out of business because of it. Hopefully something can be worked out that is fair to the customer and doesn't bankrupt the company.

[John McMahon]

I love the latest announcement from FFR stating that Bilstein will work directly with the customer to have the shocks rebuilt at $35 per shock.

In effect, this basically takes FFR out of the loop regarding any responsibility in this fiasco. If I were a customer, I would not let FFR off the hook on this one. They approved the shock and included it in all their kits. They may not have designed the shock, but they should have tested it to ensure it worked well within the geometry of the suspension. Bad bidness in my eyes.

JMHFO.

[Questor]

Originally Posted by convincor

At the price there selling the Koni's for, just buy them and move on.
I did it last year when they had the recall. not that I have a money tree in the back yard, but If I couldn't scrape up $600 to through at the car I shouldn't own it. Just My opinion..

Well, mine should be here any day, but it would be nice to have an option to recoup some of the money spent twice.

[convincor]

Agree. I'm not saying I think it's right, but I'm not going to park the car because of it. As is, I'm now buying a third set. What they "engineered" for the rear with the pin drive IRS the shocks are to short. At ride height there at full extension. So I'm know buying two longer shocks for the rear. atleast I'll be able to sell a pair and recoupe some of the cost and maybe help someone out that needs a pair for the front or std. width IRS..

[jhv48]

This horse is being beaten to death.

Yes, the Bilsteins are too fragile for these cars.

No, neither Bilstein nor FFR knew they would eventually break.

This issue has been known by FFR customers for years.

If you own a FFR roadster with these shocks, you had to make a decision, when you first found out about this problem, to either gamble that it wouldn't happen to you or buy upgraded shocks.
Once you became aware of the problem, it became YOUR responsibility to address it on your personal car.

Whether you buried your head in the sand or not was your decision.
Personally, I bought Gordon's adjustable Konis and springs (about $1800) for the better ride qualities and the peace of mind, and never looked back.

I was chastised heavily by the FFR forum members months ago when I suggested they do the same.

The majority jumped on the band wagon that the shocks were safe and that I was playing Chicken Little based on a couple of Bilstein failures.

My how things have changed.

Am I pissed that FFR is now offering their Koni shocks for a fraction of the price that I paid for Gordon's?

Nope. This is a race car. I expected to make repairs and upgrades continually. No big deal. And also, the Bilstein's rode like crap!

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by jhv48

This is a race car.

FFR sells it and labels it as a "race car" for liability purposes only. The only real race car FFR markets correctly is the Spec Racer.


Ok, you can now beat that statement to death if you like.


Oh, and by the way, FFR's customers have been dealing with the Bilstein shock issue for a longer than they should have. I have data going back over two years, TWO YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thankfully my current FFR (yes the one for sale in my signature line) does not have Bilsteins installed, or I'd be yanking it off the market and letting it sit collecting dust until replacements could be sourced.




Bill S.

[Ant]

I have Bilstein custom shocks on my cobra, this was a saga as originally I was supplied with the front set with 11mm shafts and a floppy dust seal as when they are fitted upside down the seal fell down.....! After finding someone at Bilstein who actually knew what they were about I showed them some photos of my car, and sent the shocks back to them, well the service couldnt have been better back they came with 14mm shafts, and great backup service with valving/spring rates etc.

I read where forum members say how Bilsteins dont have a very good ride etc and other shocks are better, surely the ride would depends on the valving, the main issue between Bilstein and Konis is that the Bilstein can achieve the same result, but on less expensive models they have to be dismantled to alter the valving, setup properly they can be as good as more expensive shocks.

I questioned why would you fit an 11mm shafted shock to a high performance sports or race car in the first place, and having issues with shocks at full extension at ride height is the fault of whoever spec'd the shocks!

I would have preferred Konis on my car due only to the fact of minor adjustability that is if the internal valving is basically in the middle, then you can make adjustments for different tracks etc with a turn of a knob!
The custom Bilsteins I have are probably considerably more expensive than the FF spec'd shocks, so reading between the lines what was supplied may have been an economy shock, but I wont go there to much as I dont know all the facts.

I am now working with one of the most successful single seat and saloon teams in this country, these people maintain/restore Formula Ford, Formula Toyota, F5000, F3000, Canam, LeMans cars, and mostly use Koni, but on some single seater driving school cars they use Bilstein and inform me the same result can be had if you spend the time sorting the valving etc, but when they are racing they prefer the koni.

So good luck if you have the same service I had from Bilstein, and uprate the shocks, and valve them properly for your application, and re-check the open and closed lengths, and there is no major misalignments issues, which the spherical bearings cant cope with.

[Frank Messina]

I've got Pro Shocks on my car so I'm just a bystander watching all this from a safe distance to avoid being struck by a stray projectile. From my vantage point in the bleachers though, it appears to me that Bilstein is doing everything they can to minimize their culpability in this. By doing as little as possible in fixing the problem, they avoid self incrimination. If one follows the events, the trail is pretty clearly marked. You can almost see the date and time when Bilstein gets advice from their legal counsel. The latest example is the $35 rework deal that was announced Monday is now dead and buried Wednesday. I'm not taking sides nor am I going to pretend I know the answers, but it will be a miracle if this mess doesn't wind up in court. In the meantime Bilstein isn't going to do ANYTHING that by their actions would indicate they acknowledged responsibilty in any way from a design or manufacturing standpoint for causing the failures in general. That would include free replacements or discounted reworks. FFR doesn't have the money to buy everybody new shocks and dump their current inventory. Your move. Just my 2¢.
Frank

[jhv48]

So far, no one has ben injured.

All it is going to take is one serious injury and the resulting law suit could drive FFr into BK.

Hope they get it resolved before then!

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Frank Messina

I've got Pro Shocks on my car so I'm just a bystander watching all this from a safe distance to avoid being struck by a stray projectile. From my vantage point in the bleachers though, it appears to me that Bilstein is doing everything they can to minimize their culpability in this. By doing as little as possible in fixing the problem, they avoid self incrimination. If one follows the events, the trail is pretty clearly marked. You can almost see the date and time when Bilstein gets advice from their legal counsel. The latest example is the $35 rework deal that was announced Monday is now dead and buried Wednesday. I'm not taking sides nor am I going to pretend I know the answers, but it will be a miracle if this mess doesn't wind up in court. In the meantime Bilstein isn't going to do ANYTHING that by their actions would indicate they acknowledged responsibilty in any way from a design or manufacturing standpoint for causing the failures in general. That would include free replacements or discounted reworks. FFR doesn't have the money to buy everybody new shocks and dump their current inventory. Your move. Just my 2¢.
Frank

Extremely perceptive...that's all I'll say.

[jmarsey]

Not that I give a hoot, but what if you have a failure (injury) on a “brand x” shock as a result of changing out Bilsteins due to FFR notification, and, you have 4000 track miles on your Bilsteins with no apparent problems?

[marky]

Its pretty crappy that after all this time, FFR has come up with nothing. $35 each plus one way postage. No ability to do anything with rears on most cars.
This is the best they have got and its because of a forum member who went to them direct.

I wouldn't trust Dave smith as far as I can throw the fat guy from king of queens.

The buck stops here speach implied they were going to do something.

Net result Konis at cost or $35 each to upgrade crappy bilsteins. In each case cost to put right paid by customer. I think I recall buying them as "High quality bilstein shocks"

There is another coolaid party thread going now "Dave rocks"...no Daves solutions are very shakey.

[jmarsey]

Personally, I think it's a very reasonable solution. Shocks are disposable. Fix or buy new, and move on. $hit happens.

[jmimac351]

In a post on 8/19 Dave Smith commented on this upgrade program and mentioned that if that was the way they went he would have FFR pay for the upgrade. A buddy of mine just boxed his unused Bilsteins up and shipped them off to Bilstein today with a note pointing out they are not fit for their intended use and kindly requested a refund to be remitted to the address supplied.