Upcoming FE build: plan coming together

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by aks801

The originals had an FE engine, so I'm with that. Something about that ridiculously big engine in that car is just hilarious and is what I want to see in it.

I won't get too hung up on the 390 v. 428 block question.

aks, if you would allow me to add my $0.02. I know the 390 is an FE block and I know cost is also an issue, but for the sake of resale value, as Gunner expressed earlier, and also for more cubes, I would try to "move up" to the 428 block. Additionally, a 428 was installed in many Cobras and would be higher on the "originality scale." I originally looked at several 428 and 427 blocks, but I got tired fast of looking at blocks that either were rusted, needed sleeves, cracked, etc. While I didn't want to spend big bucks on an aluminum block, I'm now very happy that I did, although now I'm hankering for a SOHC engine. Though I don't really want to carve up my footboxes and make my steering linkage look like a snake.

I'm not saying go buy an aluminum block, but try and imagine yourself in a couple or few years with the car and driving it, and ask yourself the "BACK TO THE FUTURE" question "Am I happy with the 390?"

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

aks, if you would allow me to add my $0.02. I know the 390 is an FE block and I know cost is also an issue, but for the sake of resale value, as Gunner expressed earlier, and also for more cubes, I would try to "move up" to the 428 block. Additionally, a 428 was installed in many Cobras and would be higher on the "originality scale." I originally looked at several 428 and 427 blocks, but I got tired fast of looking at blocks that either were rusted, needed sleeves, cracked, etc. While I didn't want to spend big bucks on an aluminum block, I'm now very happy that I did, although now I'm hankering for a SOHC engine. Though I don't really want to carve up my footboxes and make my steering linkage look like a snake.

I'm not saying go buy an aluminum block, but try and imagine yourself in a couple or few years with the car and driving it, and ask yourself the "BACK TO THE FUTURE" question "Am I happy with the 390?"

Maybe it's just me. I'm an FE guy, I have zero interest in Windsor based engines. As far as FE's go, there is the SOHC, there is a 427 sideoiler, and the rest are all just FE's. A 390, 428, 352, etc. block with a stroker kit in it is all the same. They're FE's. A 428 engine was just a slightly bored and significantly stroked 390. That's it. Externally they're identical, internally they're almost identical. I personally see no value in a 428 block unless you're redoing an original Cobra, Mustang, etc. that originally came with one, a restoration that needs a specific block. For a replica to have any significant additional value with a 428 vs. 390 block - I just don't see it. They're just FE's. Step up to a cross-bolted, sideoiler big bore 427 block, and THAT's a significant difference. 390 vs. 428 block - there really is no difference at all, value wise. As far as power, a 428 block can be made to displace a few more cubic inches than a 390 block, assuming you take both to their max capacity, and therefore on a max effort engine it'll naturally make a few more HP. However, that is the ONLY difference. You can EASILY exceed the 500 HP mark reliably on a 445 cu. in. "Prison Break" stroker kit for a 390 block. No problem with that, and while I don't have the numbers in front of me now, you can get, what, maybe 15 more cubic inches out of a 428 block? That should work out to about 17 extra HP on a HP per Cu. In. basis. Is anyone going to pay a big premium for this? I seriously doubt it. Get the heavy web 390 block, they're all over the place, readily available for about $100. Machine it well, drop in a stroker kit, and you're complete with the short block for less than some numbers correct guru would pay for just a 428 block that'll make no more power and last no longer. That's my $.02, your mileage may vary.

[patrickt]

I agree with everything 767Jockey says. If you happen to stumble across a really nice 428 block, then by all means pick it up. Otherwise, a 390 is just as good in every way. There is one small advantage to using a "vintage" block instead of a new one. In some states, emissions are based on the year of the block. Some engine builders also prefer the older iron blocks as well, but that's another thread....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

For a replica to have any significant additional value with a 428 vs. 390 block - I just don't see it. They're just FE's. Step up to a cross-bolted, sideoiler big bore 427 block, and THAT's a significant difference. 390 vs. 428 block - there really is no difference at all, value wise.

That's my $.02, your mileage may vary.

For me, there's a significant "value" difference. With all other things being equal, I will buy the Cobra with the 428 every day of the week and twice on Sundays over a Cobra with a 390. But that's just me. Part of the decision for me is emotional and I do not get emotional about a Cobra with a 390 regardless of how "it looks on paper."

The '67 Mustang GT could have had a 390 in it, depending on options. Shelby or someone inside SA decided to "upgrade" to a 428 for the GT500. Sorry folks, I can't remember the story.

The OP seems to be steering towards a 390 and that's great, if that's what he chooses. My opinion always seems to be in the minority.

My viewpoint is biased of course. I also chose an alloy body, because I wanted to closer in authenticity to the original. I think the 428 is the better choice between the two (390 versus 428). IMHO.

[patrickt]

Good 428s are getting harder to find. They're still out there though. There's a zillion 390s left -- so it's possible, I guess, that in 10 years a 428 could have a significant value added to it simply because you can't find them any more.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For me, there's a significant "value" difference. With all other things being equal, I will buy the Cobra with the 428 every day of the week and twice on Sundays over a Cobra with a 390. But that's just me. Part of the decision for me is emotional and I do not get emotional about a Cobra with a 390 regardless of how "it looks on paper."

The '67 Mustang GT could have had a 390 in it, depending on options. Shelby or someone inside SA decided to "upgrade" to a 428 for the GT500. Sorry folks, I can't remember the story.

The OP seems to be steering towards a 390 and that's great, if that's what he chooses. My opinion always seems to be in the minority.

My viewpoint is biased of course. I also chose an alloy body, because I wanted to closer in authenticity to the original. I think the 428 is the better choice between the two (390 versus 428). IMHO.

Rod,
We agree more than we differ on this. The main difference is with your line "all other things being equal." I assume you are talking cost as well in that statement? If the 428 block were $100 or so more than a 390 block I would certainly consider it. However with most of them now in the $1800 - $2500 range, and a 390 block in the $100 range, there is just no justification for a replica with a 428 based on that cost differential. If someone scores a huge deal, or had one laying around, sure, but at 20X the cost, I still don't get the point. If someone asks what's under the hood, and you answer a 445" FE, no one knows what the block is. If it means that much tell 'em it's a 428 block, other than getting under the car and checking the block number against a reference book, there is no way to tell, and THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Damn, for the $2000 saved, you could buy some very, very cool parts for the engine, there's no telling what you could buy. Again, I'm with you all the way on the FE, I just don't get the allure of a 428 over a 390, especially when you bore and stroke both, which almost everyone does now. There's just no real difference.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Rod,
We agree more than we differ on this. The main difference is with your line "all other things being equal." I assume you are talking cost as well in that statement? If the 428 block were $100 or so more than a 390 block I would certainly consider it. However with most of them now in the $1800 - $2500 range, and a 390 block in the $100 range, there is just no justification for a replica with a 428 based on that cost differential. If someone scores a huge deal, or had one laying around, sure, but at 20X the cost, I still don't get the point. If someone asks what's under the hood, and you answer a 445" FE, no one knows what the block is. If it means that much tell 'em it's a 428 block, other than getting under the car and checking the block number against a reference book, there is no way to tell, and THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Damn, for the $2000 saved, you could buy some very, very cool parts for the engine, there's no telling what you could buy. Again, I'm with you all the way on the FE, I just don't get the allure of a 428 over a 390, especially when you bore and stroke both, which almost everyone does now. There's just no real difference.

Once in the car, I couldn't tell the difference for sure. Heck, I would need a Ford casting numbers book, and three wise men, to figure out the difference between a 390 and 428 (or whatever FE block) with the block right in front of my face, stadium lighting and a magnifying glass.

Nothwithstanding my lack of knowledge, I would feel more emotional about having the 428. On paper, you're right. 390 is cheaper and makes just about the same HP.

When I said all other things being equal, I meant everything about the car including the car, trans, etc., internal parts of the engine, but for the block and differences in the build required for a 428 vs. 390, if any.

I just looked on the FE Forum and saw two complete 428 shortblocks for $1,800 obo and a complete CJ for $4,000 obo. Of course, who knows about the condition, but I think you could get a 428 block for much less than your figures. For a $1,700 (using your low end #) difference, I would opt for the 428, but that's me. And trust me, I'm NOT normal.

Obviously, there are people out there willing to "upgrade" to the 428 block.

[patrickt]

You can't rely on casting numbers -- the only way to tell a 390 from a 428 is to take off a piece of the engine and peek inside. Actually, you can't tell a side oiler from a 390 in our cars because you can't see under the car to find the cross-bolts without jacking it up (much less to see the side galley) and it's too hard to use a mirror. A 390 with the extra webbing that can be bored out nicely and is stroked to 445 is just as good as my 428CJ that is bored out to 447 cubes. I have a shorter stroke for faster revs (and a slower piston speed), but that's mostly bogus.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You can't rely on casting numbers -- the only way to tell a 390 from a 428 is to take off a piece of the engine and peek inside. Actually, you can't tell a side oiler from a 390 in our cars because you can't see under the car to find the cross-bolts without jacking it up (much less to see the side galley) and it's too hard to use a mirror. A 390 with the extra webbing that can be bored out nicely and is stroked to 445 is just as good as my 428CJ that is bored out to 447 cubes. I have a shorter stroke for faster revs (and a slower piston speed), but that's mostly bogus.

Please don't give me logic. That never works on me.

I did add the verbiage of having three wise men with me, since I have no clue. Chevy's are far easier to decipher.

I want a 428 over a 390, "and that's all I have to say about that."