.080 over 427 center oiler?

[dlampe]

alright, I already know the answer to this but is there any way an .080 427 block can work? It has 2 sleeves. It was bored 4.335 to put the sleeves in. I bought it from a good friend who honestly believed it was .040 which was marginal but I thought I could risk it. Now I have verified with Diamond that the pistons are in fact .080. My buddy lives 1000 miles away and I really don't want to deal with shipping this back which he offered to do and give my money back. I really want this to work. It has a 487 stroker kit in it. All the internals are brand new and the engine has never been started. Compression is about 10 to 1 and I wouldn't rev it past 5500 rpms. Any words of encouragement? anything?

[mickmate]

Sorry Dean the bible (Steve Christ) says 30 max.

[Gunner]

I understand the .030 rule is all but inflexible, with a few carefully sonic-walled blocks capable of .040.

So (1) who made .080 pistons and rings for this block, and (2) who bored and built it?

[mrmustang]

Dean,


Are you 100% positive that it is bored .080 over? If so it will make a nice table base, sleeved (did they bore the two sleeved cylinders .080 over before installing the sleeves?) or not.



Bill S.

[RICK LAKE]

Dlampe Anything is possible. If the block is filled with block crete, it will run. Need a REAL GOOD coolant system. Sonic numbers for the block are going to be the only way to see how thin the cylinder walls are. Thrust side being the most important. As far as asking some one on this forum, there are only a couple to seek out. George A. and Keith C. I don't know if Mr. Kuntz also checks in on here once in a while. You can always add more sleeves to the block. You can always sleeve a motor with a sleeve in a sleeve. We used to do this along time ago. Rick L.

[Clois Harlan]

Just in case anyone is wondering this was not my block but our friend that sold it to him had the work done by Eddie Hills Garage in Texas (the drag racer) I am told. I told Dean I would not use the block at all so that means the pistons are pretty much junk too even though they are new.

I think Deans options are to buy another FE block (428 or aftermarket) and use as many of the components as possible. The parts that were used are top shelf stuff and if they were used in another block would make a strong engine.

By the way don't buy in to much on that "not more than 5000 RPM" statement. I know Dean will be trying to catch me on the track in March or April and if he holds the engine down that much I will lap him in 15 minutes!! He is far to competitive to let that happen.

[priobe]

I have personally seen 427 sideoiler block run 50 over with no issue what so ever.

I would sonic check it and make sure you have material and build it and go.

What is this going to be used for Race / cruise.

No disrespect to anyone here but, unless you have dealt with a motor bored over .030 as the bible suggest anything is possible.


Besides, other than possibly loosing money what could happen.

[dlampe]

The block had problems that required a rebuild. Tom Keeter rebuilt the block but did not bore it. He put in the two sleeves. I took out the freeze plugs last night and there is black RVT between 3 and 4. Those cylinder walls are touching and sound thin and hollow when I tap on them. Those are sleeved. It is possible that the problems that the engine had were as a result of being bored to 4.310.

The other cylinders have .200 between them. The pistons are custom Diamond pistons job number 56661. I confirmed with them that hey are .080. The real crime here is that my buddy was taken advantage of by who ever built it for him the first time, then the second guy wasn't smart enough to just through the block away. I know he has a lot of money in this mill and now I do to and the ones the profited were the crappy engine builders!

[Barry_R]

Sonic check. Only real answer. The block is most likely a candidate for a full fill of hard block on a drag race only application at a far lower price. The rotating parts can be used with a Genesis block which can be bored far further - so all is not entirely lost.

[dlampe]

I have heard some people have had trouble with the Genisis blocks. Any truth to that?

[Barry_R]

For the most part I've done OK with them.

They are a small supplier part, made in real low volume. Issues are common with stuff like that no matter who's making them because you never really get a statistical production run - it's always a "prototype".

I have not had anything super major, and nothing that I could not fix. Certainly better than working with beat up 40 year old parts. You just need to check things carefully and keep your eyes open...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by dlampe

I have heard some people have had trouble with the Genisis blocks. Any truth to that?

The person here on CC most recently, who comes quickly to mind, is 767jockey, who had many problems dealing directly with Genesis.

If you buy your Genesis block from a reputable dealer such as Barry or Keith Craft, you shouldn't have any issues with Genesis, since they will inspect it before it leaves their shop.

[RICK LAKE]

Rodknock Nothing against 767 Jockey but his builder is not the smartest crayon in the box. ordering parts, (CUSTOM) before you have a block in which to install the parts is not the way to build anything. An oversize set of pistons cause alot of problem with this too start. Someone tryed to skin the cat and it didn't work out. 767Jockey should have gone with a big bore Shelby block and called it a day. I have heard very few problems with Ponds and Genesis block. waiting to get them seams to be the big problem. As far as any build the block should be gone through from front to back and each channel and gallery should be cleaned and bushed in a hot tank before even starting a build. The fact of overboring a new motor to the max is not something I would ever do and don't understand this kind of thinking. Rick L.

[767Jockey]

Actually, Rick, it wasn't quite that simple. The simple fact is that the block was brand new, bored to about half it's advertised range, and was a porous as Swiss cheese. Darn, Rick - it was only bored .047" over! Genesis acknowledged that the block was clearly bad, and proceeded to refuse to do anything about it for over three months. There is more to the story, it's actually far worse than that, but that's the quick and easy version. The pictures of the block were posted on CC some time ago, search and you should find them. As far as just buying a big bore Shelby block, that sure would have been easier, I was a few thou short, however - that's life. $7500+ for a block is just ridiculous to me.

The bottom line is, Genesis customer service is non existent. If you have a problem you're on your own. If you buy a Genesis block, NEVER buy it direct, buy it through Barry, Keith, etc.....Genesis is far less likely to tell these guys to take the brand new useless piece of cast iron and stick it where the sun doesn't shine. They will certainly tell it to you. Ask me how I know. Next time I'll buy Pond.

By the way, Dean - you have a PM.