Sleeves in a 427 Fe

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by dlampe

If it was two years ago and the cobra market was still good, I wouldn't mind the pond block option. Do you think an aluminum pond block is worth $3500 more to a cobra buyer over an original 427 engine?

There is a lot of subjective opinion to be considered.

I guess I would offer that if you are building a Cobra with resale down the road in mind, go with the Pond.

Building in as much quality as one can reasonably afford is usually the right move. Seems that being able to say your car has a newly cast Side Oiler, not a sleeved center oiler, would have an influence over a buyer with decent knowledge about what he or she is purchasing.

If you do pursue the Pond block I know someone just down the road from you who had five of them on a rack in his shop. At least he did in July of this year.

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by PatBuckley

Sleeving all 8, if done correctly, is NOT a problem. You end up with real good quality cylinder bores as well.

Cost is about $100 to $125 a hole and you get a standard bore 427. Then you go .015 over to get a good piston/ring selection.

Exactly what we did Pat and that beast is still behaving.

[dlampe]

I would like to talk to the guy with the Ponds. Do you have a contact number for him?

[lineslinger]

Let me dig it up and I'll PM you...............

[RodKnock]

Doesn't Keith Craft sell Ponds machined for about $4,600?

IMHO, once you disclose to me that there's an 8-holed sleeved CENTER-OILER block, no less, in there, I'm gone as a buyer. It's either the standard bore 428 or a Pond for me and I would vote Pond, but I have no idea what the engine is going into.

Dean since you sell your cars often, I might opt for the 428. If it's a keeper, then I would do the Pond.

[dlampe]

I always build these cars thinking this is going to be the last one. There is always something about the car when I get them done that I want to change or modify that just can't be altered. Sometimes it is silly stuff like the Hurricane had over spray all over the frame and I just couldn't clean it up. The Kirkham, my favorite, was not well suited for the track due to the dings in the aluminum and the lack of a real cage. That's why the GT40 was built. It was an awesome track car, maybe on of the best replica's on the track but it wasn't so much fun on the road. I just miss the open air and the sound of a cobra. Who knows, maybe this one will be the one. I better go with the Pond. Someone might want the 427 for a show car project when it is all about the date code or I'll make a very cool table!

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by Igofastr

Dean,

You could do that, but the cost to do so would likely be much greater than just buying a new block. If you have diffuculty finding a genuine 427 block, there are lots of 390s with enough material to bore out. Just do the ole 1/8th drill bit test followed by sonic testing.

Pretty much once you get past 2-3 sleeves, it's probably time to move on unless there is something special about the block.

I still like your SPF GT

I agree. If you do want to use the block,I'd have all of them sleeved. As a machinist, we would suggest that to individuals that were wanting to do Hp work.The steel sleeves usually used are stronger than the cast iron ones that they are cast with and doing all 8 makes the block stronger, as well making the cylinders more uniform in heat transferal.
So as posted, unless you have "need" for that particular block....I'd get a new aftermarket block. Just the fact that a center oiler is already 40+ years old( and 427s weren't typically grocery getters), I would venture that some of the other metal might not be up the the power that some new sleeves might take.

[Barry_R]

Sleeving all eight was a fairly normal but spendy deal for Super Stock racing. Using ductile iron sleeves and staggering the diameters - .090 wall and .125 wall - you ended up with a more rigid block and better ring seal. Done right a fully sleeved block is better not worse - but it ain't gonna be easy to convince the average buyer that it's true.

[ng8264723]

Why a pond block. The Genesis is cheaper............

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

Why a pond block. The Genesis is cheaper............

I wonder the same thing. I have seen the Genesis blocks and they look good quality to me. I know at one time,a few years ago, Roush was using the Genesis cast iron block. I think they used the Shelby aluminum one.
I've noticed a preference toward the Pond block on this forum in the last few years and not sure why that is. I don't recall any specifics presented that showed one being superior,but I may have missed it.

[Clois Harlan]

Personally, I would go with the 428 block conversion. If not that then I would re-sleeve all the cylinders as stated above. The Pond conversion would put Deans engine overall cost at well over $13,000.00. Doesn't make for much of a budget build.

What has Lumpy suggested Dean?

Clois

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

Why a pond block. The Genesis is cheaper............

It's not that much cheaper and the Pond is aluminum. Also, the Genesis block has had some problems noted by a few vendors and individuals both here and on the FE Forum. Although Barry R stands by them.

[RodKnock]

On the FE Forum, back on July 29, 2009, KC posted a special purchase on Genesis iron blocks. The cost of the upgrade to a Pond aluminum block at that time was $1,200.

If my memory serves, the Pond block saves about 125 lbs over a vintage FE. Just speculating, but the Genesis is probably heavier than a vintage FE. Having driven a Cobra with both an iron block (w/aluminum heads) and one with aluminum block, I definitely prefer the Cobra with an aluminum block.

767jockey was the individual here on CC who had problems with his Genesis block, though he purchased it directly from Genesis and not from a dealer such as Barry R or KC.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

Sleeving all eight was a fairly normal but spendy deal for Super Stock racing. Using ductile iron sleeves and staggering the diameters - .090 wall and .125 wall - you ended up with a more rigid block and better ring seal. Done right a fully sleeved block is better not worse - but it ain't gonna be easy to convince the average buyer that it's true.

Back in the mid 90's in my dirt track days there was a guy running a winged car, he was a top 5 car every week.......He would buy a brand new standard bore bowtie block and bring it directly to a machine shop and have them sleeve all 8 cylinders, ON A BRAND NEW BLOCK, they order 16 pistons/ring sets and 8 new sleeves.........he said if he had a problem, he could just about pop out a sleeve and put in a new one with a new piston/ring set in a day and be back racing the next day. he did this for years..........

Racers are a crazy,weird bunch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David