Aftermarket Aluminum FE Blocks

[RodKnock]

Whether Genesis, Pond or CSX, how many of you out there have more than 8,000-10,000 miles on your engine without any rebuild? How many miles do you have on your aluminum block FE?

Somebody over on the SAAC Forum said he thought, felt or heard that any FE engine, due to the FE design, built with an aluminum block will need a rebuild at 8,000-10,000 miles. Once fully sorted of course. Any truth to this statement?

[4pipes]

Rodney, I would guess you'd get a much more accurate answer from Tom Lucas than this forum.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

...that any FE engine, due to the FE design, built with an aluminum block will need a rebuild at 8,000-10,000 miles.

That's curious. I'd like to know if he was referring to the water jacketing or possibly the smaller cylinder head area due to the extended intake.

Maybe Barry R could shed some light...

[RodKnock]

Essentially that our aluminum FE's are intended to be a racing item and as a result may have some drawbacks to it and less overall durability just like race engines.

[ERA Chas]

I would argue the exact opposite. Quality parts assembled to blueprint specs with superior oiling seems like greater durability to me. Especially when these are seldom used in the stress of a race-only environment. Also the block, heads, pistons -all have similar rates of expansion.

Not arguing with you Rod but I'd love to see some pros explain how the FE design is fragile when done in all alloy.

[RodKnock]

Chas, I agree with you. It's not me. There's a gentleman over on the SAAC Forum that has made past and present comments deriding the all-aluminum FE that I and others have.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I would argue the exact opposite. Quality parts assembled to blueprint specs with superior oiling seems like greater durability to me. Especially when these are seldom used in the stress of a race-only environment. Also the block, heads, pistons -all have similar rates of expansion.

Not arguing with you Rod but I'd love to see some pros explain how the FE design is fragile when done in all alloy.

Oops, sorry Chas. I read your comment wrong. I'll shut up now.

[tmareina]

He's probably jealous and because he doesn't have one, wants you all to feel bad about yours so he bad mouths the engine.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Maybe Barry R could shed some light...

Barry is on record as prefering iron FE blocks. He has stated many times that aluminum shifts and moves more than iron under heat and stress. A quick search will bring up those posts.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Barry is on record as prefering iron FE blocks. He has stated many times that aluminum shifts and moves more than iron under heat and stress. A quick search will bring up those posts.

I know Barry's position but that doesn't mean they'll need rebuilds at 8K or 10K miles as Rod explains in the first post.
Moving around doesn't mean short-span rebuilds, especially with predominantly street/cruise use.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

I know Barry's position but that doesn't mean they'll need rebuilds at 8K or 10K miles as Rod explains in the first post.
Moving around doesn't mean short-span rebuilds, especially with predominantly street/cruise use.

You and I are in agreement on that. I think the fella that wrote it is probably just trying to start something up. If I had any credible data that aluminum blocks needed rebuilds that quickly I would have gleefully thrown it in Rod's face long ago.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You and I are in agreement on that. I think the fella that wrote it is probably just trying to start something up. If I had any credible data that aluminum blocks needed rebuilds that quickly I would have gleefully thrown it in Rod's face long ago.

That was good.

This person also made some derisive remarks about aluminum FE's previously too, but he obviously has no factual data to support it theory, and neither do I. However, I do know that Rokndad (Tom) with CSX4758 has around 8,000-10,000 miles on his car and his is running just as strong as ever with a Pond aluminum block.

The new aluminum blocks are thicker with better mounting bosses for "stuff" so I would think I'll/we'll be fine. Sheesh, 10,000 miles may be 10 years from now for me.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think the fella that wrote it is probably just trying to start something up.

Or maybe he's just a penis.

Steve

[PANAVIA]

Its not who makes the nut, its about the *nut* who makes it.

[olddog]

Aluminum like any metal, has properties that are different than cast iron. Some good; some bad. Light is good. Way more thermal expansion is bad. So there will be advantages that can used and disadvantages that will need to be mitigated in some way. Ok enough theoretical babble....

Ford sure did make a lot of all aluminum Modular 4.6 engines for Lincoln's to Mustang Cobra's. I pulled a Lincoln down that had 105K miles on it. There was no ridge at the top of the cylinder and the cross hatch looked like it was just honed. They use ductil iron sleeves and low tention rings. If it wasn't for a broken valve spring (dropped valve into a piston), I think it could easily went 200K miles.

I doubt an aluminum FE is going to need a rebuild at 8K miles, just because it was aluminum. I would ask this guy, what are the simptoms that indicates in needs rebuilt, and what parts are they measuring the wear on?

[undy]

I know of several 200k mile Chebby aluminum LS motors running around in C5s locally. One in particular has been dogged pretty hard too. Engine temperature management is much more critical on an aluminum engine due to the increased thermal growth issue. MFRs will target certain clearances by maintaining temps a bit more precisely. Methodical warm-ups are much more important too due to improper clearances at colder temps. Poor ring seating, cylinder wall scuffing and ultimately excessive ring blow-by are the primary occuring culprits of a routinely "beat on" cold/too hot aluminum block'd engine. You just need to be a bit more mindfull of what you're driving and keep a routine eye on a reliable temp gauge. An aftermarket aluminum FE block if properly maintained and driven should last every bit as long as the iron version.

I would put any stock in his "generalized" uninformed deduction...

[vector1]

blanket statements as quoted in the original post cannot be true due to many different circumstances of how an engine is used.

you know how iron blocks get better with age, i have read aluminum is the opposite.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by vector1

you know how iron blocks get better with age, i have read aluminum is the opposite.

30+ years ago we used to speak highly of "seasoned blocks." You know, a zillion hot/cold cycles somehow made the block better. I haven't heard that in a long time. And I don't think I've ever heard it regarding an aluminum block.

[Woodz428]

Originally Posted by patrickt

30+ years ago we used to speak highly of "seasoned blocks." You know, a zillion hot/cold cycles somehow made the block better. I haven't heard that in a long time. And I don't think I've ever heard it regarding an aluminum block.

They still"season" blocks, but it's not the same as they used to( let 'em set outside ,etc.) But they do cryogenic treatments that are supposed to do the same thing...or achieve the same results. I don't think I've heard of that with aluminum blocks either. You have to have a singular metal to do it, an aluminum block with sleeves wouldn't fit in that category. I would think that any treatment on an aluminum block would have limited success since the cylinder would create some changes from the installation and boring.

[coosawjack]

I have a DOHC 4.6 aluminum mod motor in my '04 Mercury Marauder and it has 211K+ miles on it with the last 128K miles Supercharged!!

It has never used a drop of oil between 5K mile changes and runs like new making over 400 RWHP......I haven't dynoed it but most with ProChargers are making 425-450 RWHP!!

I would expect modern FE aluminum blocks will last a long time with reasonable maintenance.....I'm sure most of you "OVER DO" your maintenance.....so I think life expectancy of aluminum blocks in street cars should be as good or better than iron blocks!!

My $.02 FWIW!!