Richmond 5 speed or Toploader or Tremec TKO

[JBAIRD]

Seems to be an aweful lot of confusion on this one. I'm building a newERA with an alum. shelby stroker motor. Been running Tremec TKO in my SPF cars. What about an ERA. Any thoughts guys??

[Bud Man]

Drew:

Have Dave Kee build you a wide ratio toploader (BI/BO). Best of both worlds....good ratios and as tough as they get. Original, too.

My .02 cents worth.

Bud

[CJ428CJ]

I'm building an ERA too. I was originally going to go with a wide ratio toploader and 3.31 gears but then I stumbled across a great deal on a rearend with 2.88 gears. That made me decide to go with the Richmond 5 speed. My cars not here yet so I don't have first hand experience, but other folks I've talked to seem to think the 5 speed and 2.88 should be just about perfect.

[GUMBALL]

John,

Richmond 5 with a 2.88 for me too. Same low end as a Toploader with a 3.54 with the extra gear for cruising.................... PERFECT! Although, Peter says he is having difficulty obtaining the 2.88 rear for my car and might have to go with 3.07 instead.

Have fun with your new project.

John

[Steve Dickey]

I'm in the process of putting my ERA together as well. 427so, Richmond with a 2.88 rear end. If you send me your address I'll mail you a graph comparing the Richmond(2.88) and the wide ratio top loader(3.54) Steve

[wtcobra]

JBaird-the two best performance wise would be G-Force (Long Engineering) and Jerico. Dave Kee is great for Top Loaders, not for sure if he sells G-Force or Jerico, but he does sell flywheels & clutches. The Richmond 5-speed with a 3.27 First gear is okay for the street if you use 2.88 gears or higher, anything else is a stump puller if your engine is making any serious power. The 3.07 is marginal with the Richmond. The nice thing about the Jerico or G-Force is the almost unlimited gear choices and the amount of torque they will take. Be prepared to drop about 5 or 6 grand though, for a new one.
wt

[wtcobra]

P.S.- for the rest of you guys the Richmond is fine for the street, but they are famous for not shifting well particularly under a heavy torque load. The best shifter for a Richmond is the Long one. Been there and done that, so I speak from experience. Do not try power shifting with a Richmond unless you have a good rev limiter. By power shifting I am speaking about shifting without lifting on the gas.

wt

[Steve Dickey]

wtcobra,
I would like to point out that if a "3.07 is marginal with a Richmond" so is a wide ratio top loader with a 3.54. With 27" tall tires at 6000rpm in first gear there is only 1.2mph difference(48vs49.2mph). Take care, Steve

[wtcobra]

Steve Dickey- Without getting out my gear ratio computer it is my recollection that the first 4 gears of a Richmond with 3.07 RE are very close to those of a Top Loader with the W/R gears with a 3.54 rearend. Most performance tires for Cobras are shorter than 27", but there would not be much difference between a WR T/L and a Richmond's first 4 gears in the above scenario, and both would be fine for the street, except I would expect the T/L to shift better when they are occasionally punched. I am sorry if you think I stepped on your toes as I see you are going to use a Richmond. All of my race tires are 26" tall down to 25.5 for the Hoosier radials. I will say it again the Richmond is fine for the street, but they do not shift well with use on tracks and the above combination is marginal in 1st gear when used with competition tires. Now if you are going to come back and point out one could raise their 1st gear shift rpm level to 7500 to 8000, I would have to agree with you. Your 2.88 RE is perfect for the Richmond as your 5th gear will be like an overdrive. The C/R TL with its 2.32 1st gear works better with a RE of 3.54 than it does with the W/R 2.78 1st gear in a Cobra that is making serious torque. You can't get large enough tires in the wheel wells to allow it to hook up and you are then forced to short shift. Also all of the guys I know with fast ERA's have gotten rid of their Richmonds.
wt

[jeff neely]

I also run the jag 2.88 rear in my era with the richmond 5 speed. The shifter is very important for hight reasons as well as preformance reasons with the richmond 5 speed in era cars. Works well for me.
Good luck

Jeff Neely

[Gary Morris]

You need a car first.................the rest is a piece of cake

Your ERA Specialists
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[RICK LAKE]

HI J BAIRD THIS IS ERA 428. ALL ALUM SHELBY FUEL INJECTED, SUPER CHARGED. RIGHT NOW I HAVE A RICHMOND 6-SP. WITH A 3.31 REAR ON 15 INCH WHEELS. AS LONG AS I STAY OF THE B.F.G. T/A RADIALS THE TRANS IS ALL RIGHT BUT I CANNOT USE SLICKS OR SOFT DOT TIRES, TOO MUCH GRIP, THE TRANS WILL NOT LAST, I AM GOING TO A G-FORCE 5 SPEED WITH 3.08 GEARS I THINK THIS IS THE PERFECT MIX FOR A 2400LB CAR IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WITH YOUR CAR. AUTOCROSS,ROADRACE, DRAGRACE, CRUISE, SALTFLATS RACING LAST YEAR AT RUN@GUN A COBRA MAKEN 675HP ON NOS, RAN 9.871 SEC. 138.0 MPH. WITH A 4 SPEED. GUYS RAN 10.5'S IN CORVETTES WITH AUTO THIS YEAR, THE CHOISE IS UP TO YOUGOOD LUCK RICK LAKE

[cobralee]

Better late than never. I had a Doug Nash with a 3.27 1st gear. Using 3.08 gears is an equivalent of 4.56, then 5th gear is 1.1. So great for acceleration and cruising in 5th. However, as some of you guys mentioned, this trans cannot shift as in drag racing. I tried and it hangs up in neutral for a fraction of a second, long enough to overrev and thow something. I ran into Richmond Gear people at the SEMA Show is Las Vegas and brought this up. They admit that this trans cannot power shift and if you want to drag race, use their drag race version. It has straight cut gears and no synchros, thus not to great for street driving. But for road racing, the Doug Nash might work out.

[Jeff Frigo]

The Richmand is stronger than the Tremec. If you pick the rear end gear correctly, you can't go wrong.



Jeff

[renaissance man]

I have a 4-Speed Wide Ratio Toploader with a 4.10 rear end. A fifth gear is nice if you want to reduce noise but it's the sound of that 4-Speed at 70 or 80 mph that gives you that "NASCAR" sound!

Here are the specs on the Wide Ratio Toploader and a bit of how it works:

Wide Ratio Toploader

first second third fourth
Ratio: 2.78 1.93 1.36 1.0



HOW A TOPLOADER WORKS

In first-speed, the first & second-speed synchronizer sleeve is moved rearward by the shift fork. The sleeve engages the first-speed blocking ring, which acts as a cone clutch applied to the free-wheeling first-speed gear. This action speeds up or slows down the first-speed gear to match the speed of the output shaft. Further movement of the sleeve locks the first & second speed synchronizer hub to the first-speed gear by means of internal splines.

On engagement of the clutch, power flows through the input shaft & gear to the meshed countergear and thence to the first-speed gear. This gear transmits the power through the locked synchronizer hub to the output shaft. All other forward-speed gears are in idler motion, as they are driven by the counter gear, but they do not transmit power because they are not locked to the output shaft. All other forward-speed shifts are made in the same manner as the first-speed shift due to the constant mesh feature. The shift to the fourth-speed gear locks the third & fourth-speed synchronizer sleeve to the input shaft.
This allows power to flow straight through the input and output shafts.

(description courtesy of David Kee Toploaders)


Way Cool !!!

[Sonny]

in no way can you beat the toploader for performance and reliability, David Kee IS THE MAN, when it comes to the 10 bolt in any form. if you have to have a overdrive condition, can't imagine in a roadster, use the 10 bolt overdriven RUGXXXX model 10 bolt. works fine in a light cobra chassis.

[Cal Metal]

David Kee is a Jerrico dealer as well as 'thee' TL Specialist in the land.

Don't know much about the Richmond except that their balky gate cost Unique's Ernie Elliot NASCAR powered Cobra a Run & Gun. Talk to Maurice at Unique. He will probably give you a good deal on that transmission. Poor Boy can elaborate on what I just said. He has driven that Elliot car.

The cost difference between the TL and the Richmond is as wide as Roseanne Barr's waist, isn't it?

[Ant]

Having used a Cobra with a CR Toploader on 3.07 gears, I found it to be to high in First gear, but was good on the track, should have fitted 3.54 gears!
Used a 5 speed Seanz with 650+bhp on 3.1 RE, worked well but first was just a take off gear!

The message I get is from all the post:

Tremecs break synco rings on the track, numerous posts on that subject.
Richmond 5 speeds dont shift good for the track. That rules those out for me!

Toploaders are excellent if you want to change rear end ratios, for road and track.
Downsides are the CR has a very high first unless using a 3.54 RE. The WR has a gap between Third and Top!

Jerico would be my choice or a G-force 5 speed and run a 3.08 with the 5 speed, with a first gear not taller than 2.88/3.04.

[Rebel1]

Ant, I think you'll find much has changed since March 2001 when this thread was current.

The availability of the Tremec 500 & 600, more so the 600 road race version has made the choice of transmissions an easier one that it was back then.

Cheers

[Ant]

Les,

If Tremec can supply a trans that doesn't go through synco rings, I may be interested.

The 2.87 first is okay, and the 0.82 od would be good. Is the 600 designed for Road racing in mind?