Cast or Aluminum ?

[redmt]

Originally I wanted to build a 351W for my CCX. I have pretty much decided that the car deserves to be built as close as original as I can afford. I'm concerned about the added weight of the FE vs the W. There has to be 200 lbs. difference at least. I know the stock intake is 100 + so I'll go aluminum. I'm thinking about aluminum heads vs the original cast. Seeing as how the aluminum won't be THAT much lighter, I'm wondering about the horsepower difference with a stock to stock profile head. The motor will be built mild as a 428 can have plenty HP in the stock form, so I'm not looking for exotically ported heads.

When I was building BBc , the aluminum stock OEM heads were a significant HP loss. If the stock type aluminum heads are comparable in HP then I'll go for the weight savings. If there is much of a loss then I'll suffer the weight savings loss.

John

[strictlypersonl]

The FE is lighter than you think.

http://www.erareplicas.com/engines.htm

[redmt]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

The FE is lighter than you think.

http://www.erareplicas.com/engines.htm

"The FE series was a thin-wall design preceding the 221/260, so the weight was pretty reasonable: 610 lbs for an all iron engine, with flywheel and carburetor."

I've always had 745 in my brain. But then I never weighed one.

[FWB]

the aluminum heads have other benefits besides a performance gain.
they have hardened seats for unleaded fuel use, iron heads do not.
they have bronze valve guides iron heads do not.
aluminum heads allow slightly higher compression ratios over iron heads.
basically its a cost issue......to get a set of 40 year old iron heads to play nice will cost as much if not more than a set of aluminum heads.

[bulletbrown]

redmt , In building a 428 I found this form to be of great help . With FE builders like Keith Kraft just a phone call away and others who have all the experience and recommendations; it will save you money, time and grief. In the end you will have the performance , reliability you paid fore to suit your needs. As for your Question about heads , I too played with the idea of using original cast heads but in the end I went with Kieth,s Stage Two heads , stock bore and stroke and I,m very pleased with the reliability and power .

[ERA 778]

I just receieved my 428FE from Keith Craft and the shipping weight - including carb, Quick Time bellhousing (23 lbs.), March pulleys PLUS the wooden shipping crate and pallet (certainly more than 30 pounds) was only 575 pounds.

This engine has aluminum heads, water pump, and intake manifold. So my first guess for the engine w/o bellhousing is 520 lbs.

[saltshaker]

You could always have Les Schmader (814-226-4659) rebuild your heads, put CJ valves and hardened seats, and port them....I did and they flow 285 cfm @.600 lift ....that's about 15 percent more then the Edelbrock heads and for half the cost!
Jon

[redmt]

Originally Posted by saltshaker

You could always have Les Schmader (814-226-4659) rebuild your heads, put CJ valves and hardened seats, and port them....I did and they flow 285 cfm @.600 lift ....that's about 15 percent more then the Edelbrock heads and for half the cost!
Jon

My guess is the cost of shipping both ways would be more than it's worth.

[Fordzilla]

To me, It's personal preference. Nothing wrong with Iron or Aluminum. Iron can have the bigger valves, hardened seats, bronze guides, along with bowl & port work if desired. At very reasonable cost & a big savings over aluminum. Aluminum is also great & has a weight advantage, so either way, it just depends on what you want & the budget you have to work with. Shipping heads is cheaper then you think. Check the weight & rates with Fedex.
My .02

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by ERA 778

I just receieved my 428FE from Keith Craft and the shipping weight - including carb, Quick Time bellhousing (23 lbs.), March pulleys PLUS the wooden shipping crate and pallet (certainly more than 30 pounds) was only 575 pounds.

This engine has aluminum heads, water pump, and intake manifold. So my first guess for the engine w/o bellhousing is 520 lbs.

That is light especially for an engine with a deep skirt around the crank. I think steel heads only add about 25 to 30 lbs to these engines so with just an aluminum intake they aren't much heavier than a SB Chevy.

[rustyBob]

its not hard to find a good set of iron FE heads......
i matched ported mine to the intake and exhaust and had hardened seats
installed along with bronz guides for a lot less than a new set of aluminum
heads would cost and i dont have to worry about studding the block to keep
head gaskets in it.........

[Dwight]

I think the iron intake weights 70 lbs more than the aluminum one.

I have several sets of FE heads. One pair off of a '67 428. I would sell them.

I have been told that all the heads before '73 needed the seats replaced so you could burn the unleaded gas we have today.

Dwight

[Dwight]

I re-read redmt post.

And I would like to said if you install an aluminum intake and water pump the weight differents would not be that much.

I would go with the aluminum water pump.

I have driven a lot of Cobras. 5.0's, 351's and a couple of FE powered Cobras.

Each Cobra drives different. Of course I don't drive their like I do mine. But the FE front end weight, I just don't feel it on the street. One of the FE Cobra has 10" wide front tires that make it a little harder to turn.

If you are not racing I don't think a few pounds will make any differents in the way it drives.

Small streering wheels make them harder to turn.

Go for the FE


Dwight

I drive a small block

[Keithc8]

I would like to say that there is no way that you can do any cast iron head right and it be anywhere close to the aluminum heads and they are still 40 years old and weight about 20 pounds more per head.
I can make more money doing the cast iron heads but if you take the cost of a decent set of 428CJ cores you are looking at about 600.00 at least. Then you need hardened exhaust seats, guide liners, valve job, chamber side milled for gasket seal, exhaust side milled for gasket seal and then you have new stainless steel valves, retainers, locks, springs, seals, cups, machining for positive stop seal and maching for spring cup. The least I can do a set of nice 482CH heads for is about 1600.00 and this is with no port work. I can garuantee that our stage 1 that we sell for 1795.00 will flow better and make more power. You can run one more round of compression and port them more if you would like in the future. Do them with a little larger valve and you have even more flow but this depends on your bore size.
We can help you with a stroker 428 engine or even a 390 engine that will be about 440 to 465C.I. for not much more than some stock rebuilt using used FE stuff. You can use a stage one head and have a easy 500HP engine with 530 to 540 ft/lbs of torque.
Come to our open house and see all of this kind of stuff. It ant your Dad's FE engine anymore, it is a Keith Craft FE engine. Good luck.

Keith Craft

[Fordzilla]

There is Iron "Street Heat" Heads on ebay for $895. I've used them on several projects. Great heads, great price. I have also used massaged over aluminum heads. They are great too. Just depends on what you want & what your budget can afford.

[redmt]

Thanks for all the input. I think that the cast 428 heads I already have will be the way to go. $1800.00 bucks for a set of Hi-Po heads for a stock-ish motor ain't gonna happen.

"It ant your Dad's FE engine anymore" I'm not sure exactly what the intent of this was but it seems more like an insult than anything else? I would love to come to the KC open house If it was a couple thousand miles closer, I'd be there.

John

[FWB]

Originally Posted by redmt

Thanks for all the input. I think that the cast 428 heads I already have will be the way to go. $1800.00 bucks for a set of Hi-Po heads for a stock-ish motor ain't gonna happen.

"It ant your Dad's FE engine anymore" I'm not sure exactly what the intent of this was but it seems more like an insult than anything else? I would love to come to the KC open house If it was a couple thousand miles closer, I'd be there.

John

1800..? they sell for 1300 to 1500. with a set of iron heads that do not have hardened seats installed. they will self destruct using unleaded fuel. the exhaust valves will pummel the seats sinking the valve deeper and deeper into the head. you will get maybe 2 years out of them before your ripping it down again. if they already have hardened seats then use them.
just bear in mind they are 40 years plus old.

[rustyBob]

John...call your local machine shop and get a quote on what it cost to do a pair of iron heads...if your not going to race it i would pass on the aluminum heads and spend that money somewhere else...like buying me a beer...lol

[redmt]

Originally Posted by rustyBob

John...call your local machine shop and get a quote on what it cost to do a pair of iron heads...if your not going to race it i would pass on the aluminum heads and spend that money somewhere else...like buying me a beer...lol

There is an engine builder with a great reputation in BACC. I'll pick his brain some at breakfast in the morning. The 428 heads I have have been reworked quite a few years ago. I know I changed the seats in them but I really don't remeber what all I did do to them . They probably have 50-75,000 miles on them since they have been lifted. What ever shape they are in will certainly need to be redone.

Come on over, I'll buy you a beer anytime!

John

[rustyBob]

when i get my sb-100 you may just hear my FE come roaring up your driveway now that im back in Sacto. again...and i'll bring a shot of Jack with me to...