FE rocker adjustment and it still ticks - now what

[Grubby]

I have 428 stroker with Edlebrock heads, hydraulic flat tappets, and OEM style adjustable rockers. I have a on going problem of valve train tick when the engine is completely heated. Usually after a 30 minute plus drive.

The problem is I have adjusted the rockers 3X. I adjusted the rockers using the following procedure; "Set the intake valve when the exhaust valve is starting to open. Set the exhaust valve when the intake valve is starting to close. That ensures that the lifter is on the base of the lobe.

When you get there, loosen the adjuster up. I don't look for how freely the pushrod spins....there are too many variables there. I "feel" for how much axial play (lash) there is in the pushrod. When I get to zero lash, then depending on what rockers/lifters I have (not including short travel lifters), I go anywhere from 1/2 to 3/4 turn past that."

The last time through I went to 1 1/4 turns. I was able to confirm none of the rockers had backed off.

The engine is warm when I make the adjustment.

The tick is on several cylinders on both banks.

Is it possible the heads are expanding more than the push rods and using up all of the lash? Should I add another 1/4 turn?

Thanks guys.
John

[blykins]

Which cam is it? Some cams have more aggressive lobes, which causes a little "sewing machine" noise.

Also, how's the oil pressure when hot?

Are you sure the noise isn't coming from another area?

[Grubby]

Ultra Dyne cam - no part number shown on build sheet. It is a pretty mild cam. It dynoed at 480 hp.

The engine was built for the previous owner by a reputable builder.

Oil pressure is about 15 psi at hot idle. As shown on Smith gauge.

The noise can be clearly heard at the rocker covers using my stethescope.

On the right bank it sounds like all rockers are making noise. The left sounds like the back 2 cylinders only. The front 2 can be heard, but not nearly as loud as the back 2.

Before the engine gets thoroughly heated, the sound on all cylinders is the same and pretty typical of other eninges I have listened to that don't have a lifter tick.

John

[FWB]

15 psi would worry me.....

[Rick Parker]

I agree with FWB. Assuming the lifters have benn set in their "Sweet" spot, the next thing I would look at would be the clearance on the rocker shafts & respective arms. Does the ticking diminish at speeds above idle when oil pressure builds?

[blykins]

What weight of oil are you running? I like heavier oil on my hydraulic cam engines. Also, do you have the oil restricted to the valvetrain?

[Grubby]

10W-30 Valvoline VR1 oil (not synthetic)

I don't know if there is an oil restrictor.

How much oil pressure would you like to see at idle?

The valve train noise seems to be much less off idle.

Build sheet shows - .080 oil restrictor in DSCK
Elgin lifters HL-2083 HPS

It sounds like the first suggestion is thicker oil. Does that mean 20W-50.

John

[tboneheller]

Mine was making noise like a mis-adjusted rocker. Found out that it requires 11 1/2 quarts of oil to fill a FE with an Aviad pan & an oil cooler. Now I always have great oil pressure & the ticking is gone.
Try adding to the oil level & see if your issue goes away.

[Grubby]

I have struggled with oil level. The ERA manual says 8.5 quarts. I have the Avaid pan, oil cooler and remote filter.

Thanks.
John

[FWB]

when reving the engine is there any fluctuation in the oil pressure. if so that would indicate the pan running dry.
what oil pressure i like at idle would depend on the crank rod journal size you have.
factory ford rod size= 45 psi min
chev journal=30-35 min

i would start by trying a thicker oil but i don't think it is the root of the pressure problem. the rockers would be my first place to check too.

[Grubby]

Can you guys give some direction on what to look for on rocker clearance?

I am a Chevy guy and the FE is very new to me.

It looks like I will change oil to 20W-50 and check rocker clearance and report back.

No oil pressure fluctuation at high rpms.

John

[FWB]

John,
let me ask you then since your more familiar with GM, are you sure you have factory ford rockers? take some pics of the rocker set up.
checking clearances may take more than you think, applying oil pressure with the valve covers off would let you see any excess losses there.


you could spin the motor with the ignition disabled or pull the distrib. and spin the oil pump with a drill to see if you have excess leakage out the sides of the rockers or shafts.

the restriction size you stated seems right in line with what others are running.

are you absolutely sure your oil pressure gauge is right? just so your not chasing ghosts. tick or no tick, is it oil pressure or just bad or worn components.

just for the sake of making sure add an extra quart of oil and see if the oil pressure goes up.

[FWB]

rocker bore size..... .8425-.844 with TIR not exceeding .001

[BDR879]

FWIW, my 428 oil pressure is around 30 psi at idle, 60 psi cold, 45 while cruising.

[Rick Parker]

The rocker arm bore/shaft clearance is not something that can be checked "in the field". It is best left to a machinist on THEIR workbench.

[55312]

15 PSI is not normal at idle when the engine is at temp. My tired old 427 runs 50 to 60 at hot idle (checked it while cruising around today). Cold I'm at 80 with a Melling HV pump. Add a quart or two and check it again before you run around with it. I'm running Brad-Penn 10W 30.

Tim

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by BDR879

FWIW, my 428 oil pressure is around 30 psi at idle, 60 psi cold, 45 while cruising.

That's about exactly what mine is with Rotella T 15w40. BTW, I hate the "Bar" o/p gauge in our cars.

[Grubby]

I will see if I have a shop gauge to check my dash oil pressure gauge tommorrow.

I put about 300 milles on this car when I first got it last year and didn't notice any noise. Winter came and I added a oil cooler with T stat and changed oil. I wonder if the cooler and T stat could have caused a restriction?

I may put the standard FE filter housing on tommorrow and see what my pressure looks like.

It does not seem likely I am running out of oil in the sump. The noise is at idle and not at higher rpms.

John

[patrickt]

Grubby, the FE "oil pressure debate" comes up from time to time and, sometimes, it can get out of hand. Add to that the fact that a lot of us are using something other than a true Ford crank (like SCAT) which is actually easier on the need for pressure. So, I'll just refer you to a couple of threads that I can remember off the top of my head from the last few years. I've chosen these threads because they contain informative quotes from guys that really, really know what they're talking about when it comes to FE engines -- some of them have a good 40+ years of FE experience. But, if you don't want to read the threads, you can just remember that the factory specifications for FE engines was 35-60 PSI at 2000 RPM with a minimum of 6 PSI. Flickering oil lights in 1966 were not uncommon (and that meant you were dipping below 8 PSI) -- and that was not a big deal. Most of the really experienced FE builders around here will tell you that the oil pressure number, when you're below 2000 RPM, means virtually nothing. I'm not even going to tell you what my oil pressure numbers are. Here are a couple of threads for you to read:

332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum: low oil pressure??

332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum: Oil Pressure Puzzle (long...sorry)

332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum: Oiling system upgrade, impressions.

[tboneheller]

After you put the extra 3 quarts of oil in, your problem will be solved. I would not have thought it either,But do the math.
Aviad oil pan = 7 1/2 qt.
oil filter = 1 qt.
oil cooler = 1 1/2 qt.
all oil cooler & remote filter lines 1+ qt.
All of this combined with a high volume oil pump that is sucking your already low oil pan dry, is causing your issues.
This was brought to my attention by the good folks at Cobra Restorers, LTD.