FE builder / Pro in NC?

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Every engine builder prefers an iron block. Most customers have to have an aluminum block.

Educate me. other than weight savings why is that?

to be more exact, why do builders prefer Iron?

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by willtwallace

Educate me. other than weight savings why is that?

to be more exact, why do builders prefer Iron?

I seem to recall Brent Lykins posting that aluminum blocks take more work than does cast iron - but he's certainly the best one to elaborate on why he prefers cast iron.

[RodKnock]

I'd speculate that there's less room for error in an alloy block. So, if the engine builder makes a mistake, then it's more easily corrected with an iron block.

[blykins]

A lot more prep, more chance of a customer doing damage by getting on it when it's not fully up to temp (main bearing clearances change with heat), more chances of leaks, both internal and external. Things like lifter bore bushings require more press fit and even cam bearings have to be Loctited or pinned to keep them from moving when the block gets hot.

Even lash/lifter preload changes at a higher rate. On an iron block with aluminum heads, we see lash increase by about .006" when up to temp....hydraulic lifter preload would decrease by .006". On an all-aluminum block, lash grows by a whopping .015"....which means you lose about .015" of lifter preload on a hydraulic lifter. There are some street solid roller camshafts that I use that have .016"/.018" hot lash spec. That means that cold lash needs to be set at .001-.002".

To add to that, a high performance aluminum block engine will make less horsepower than an equivalent iron block engine, due to the block being less rigid/stable, thus contributing to a lack of ring seal.

There are more areas for liability for the engine builder, just so the customer can say, "Yeah, that block only weighs 125 lbs" or "Yep, it's an all-aluminum engine."

I'm really not a fan.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by blykins

A lot more prep, more chance of a customer doing damage by getting on it when it's not fully up to temp (main bearing clearances change with heat), more chances of leaks, both internal and external. Things like lifter bore bushings require more press fit and even cam bearings have to be Loctited or pinned to keep them from moving when the block gets hot.

Even lash/lifter preload changes at a higher rate. On an iron block with aluminum heads, we see lash increase by about .006" when up to temp....hydraulic lifter preload would decrease by .006". On an all-aluminum block, lash grows by a whopping .015"....which means you lose about .015" of lifter preload on a hydraulic lifter. There are some street solid roller camshafts that I use that have .016"/.018" hot lash spec. That means that cold lash needs to be set at .001-.002".

To add to that, a high performance aluminum block engine will make less horsepower than an equivalent iron block engine, due to the block being less rigid/stable, thus contributing to a lack of ring seal.

There are more areas for liability for the engine builder, just so the customer can say, "Yeah, that block only weighs 125 lbs" or "Yep, it's an all-aluminum engine."

I'm really not a fan.

ummm, well, okay. Hmmm, thanks.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

"Yeah, that block only weighs 125 lbs" or "Yep, it's an all-aluminum engine."

Wow, that's exactly what I tell folks when I take the car cover off the Cobra in the garage when I have people over for dinner and cocktail parties.

[blykins]

So it's not a bragging right when you're standing around with your fellow gear head buddies?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

So it's not a bragging right when you're standing around with your fellow gear head buddies?

Iron for me. Every builder and "smart guy" from a track were in unison on that.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Wow, that's exactly what I tell folks when I take the car cover off the Cobra in the garage when I have people over for dinner and cocktail parties.

Its not parked in the living room?


i would if i could....

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by blykins

So it's not a bragging right when you're standing around with your fellow gear head buddies?

so bottom line the iron block is more durable?

[blykins]

I would agree with that. Weight savings is the only real plus that I can think of, but the engine sits behind the front tires on a Cobra, so I'm not really sure the weight loss is that critical, unless you're counting curb weight.

Edit....

Just thought of another plus (trying to be fair)....

On an iron block, if you start with a 4.250" bore, you have plenty of cylinder left for future rebuilds, since most of the aftermarket cast iron blocks will go to 4.400" and higher. On an aluminum block, the sleeves aren't that thick, so you may not have as many rebuilds with the included sleeves, but you can always buy new sleeves and put it back to the bore size that you were at.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Iron for me. Every builder and "smart guy" from a track were in unison on that.

And how do those "smart guys from a track" feel about painting a Cobra, a 1960's iconic race car, beige?

And which track was this? The Hot Wheels track in your living room?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

So it's not a bragging right when you're standing around with your fellow gear head buddies?

Nah, my gearhead buddies drone on and on about how big their battery packs are and how far they can drive on a charge with their Teslas.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And which track was this? The Hot Wheels track in your living room?

You know I actually do still have my original Hot Wheels track and many of the cars. My kids played with them... a little bit.

[willtwallace]

uh oh, Patrick is here.

Well, with the Pond block its more of a decision, because they are the same price for Al and Fe. But with the BBM block it seems its a no brainier.

For me, it "seems" the iron is defiantly NOT a downgrade in value or performance. On a plus, its ~$1k cheaper...and on a retired Soldiers budget, that works!

I could put that money into some great heads, rollers, etc....

[blykins]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Nah, my gearhead buddies drone on and on about how big their battery packs are and how far they can drive on a charge with their Teslas.

I'd love to ride in one....or drive one. Yeah, I'd rather drive one.

[willtwallace]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'd love to ride in one....or drive one. Yeah, I'd rather drive one.

mmm, ill pass....battery powered car, no. just on principle alone.

i know, i know, environmentalist are cringing.

But your Starbucks cups, Mac books, IPhone cases, and $30 water bottles are petroleum based, so we agree on something.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by willtwallace

uh oh, Patrick is here.

Well, with the Pond block its more of a decision, because they are the same price for Al and Fe. But with the BBM block it seems its a no brainier.

For me, it "seems" the iron is defiantly NOT a downgrade in value or performance. On a plus, its ~$1k cheaper...and on a retired Soldiers budget, that works!

I could put that money into some great heads, rollers, etc....

If I know/knew for sure that the BBM product was an excellent product being produced by excellent company, with excellent customer service, in the same vein as ERA or Kirkham are, then it's no brainer to me. If I had to make the decision today, then I'd probably choose the iron BBM product.

But then, I'm a lot thriftier now than I was before the 2007-2008 market crash.

Unless a CSX owner must have a CSX block, for the dumb reason that a CSX replica needs a CSX block for some sort of "love connection" or synergy, then I don't think they'll be selling many more CSX blocks in the future.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'd love to ride in one....or drive one. Yeah, I'd rather drive one.

They're rocket ships, no doubt about it. They were cool at first, especially the Roadster (Tesla's 1st car), but now they're ubiquitous. It's like a Prius around here. They're an appliance.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Unless a CSX owner must have a CSX block, for the dumb reason that a CSX replica needs a CSX block for some sort of "love connection" or synergy, then I don't think they'll be selling many more CSX blocks in the future.

Ouch! That hurts RK!
Next, you'll be back on saying that nobody wants Toploaders anymore!
And yes...I'm have a "love connection"!!