New alloy 427 FE build.. call me crazy

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 2bars

Thanks guys for all the information. I did talk to Brent today and we have a plane once the heads have been flow tested.

Just remember, unless you're racing on the track, less is more when it comes to the long term enjoyment of any stroked FE. Now, by all means, you want your FE to have a nice lopey cam, with good overlap, you want it to rev reasonably high, because that's fun, and you don't want it to tear itself apart. If you're not racing, then you'll spend >98% of your time with the secondaries closed, you'll hit WOT less than 30 seconds total in any given year, and you'll spend most of your tweaking time on your idle circuit and your transition circuit -- because that's where you'll live most of the time.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Just remember, unless you're racing on the track, less is more when it comes to the long term enjoyment of any stroked FE. Now, by all means, you want your FE to have a nice lopey cam, with good overlap, you want it to rev reasonably high, because that's fun, and you don't want it to tear itself apart. If you're not racing, then you'll spend >98% of your time with the secondaries closed, you'll hit WOT less than 30 seconds total in any given year, and you'll spend most of your tweaking time on your idle circuit and your transition circuit -- because that's where you'll live most of the time.

This is so true. I always felt like the Roush (Windsor based SBF) 427 in mine was "underutilized". It liked high RPMs, so even on the highway I usually ran in 4th.

[Dimis]

Keeping in mind there is no such thing as the one perfect cam, I'll throw one out there for your bench racing consideration.

I'm assuming you're running a 5 speed tremec with a .82 rear, and diff ratio of 3.54.
The common conservative hyraulic cam options seems to be around 242/248 LSA 112

Typically good for about 550hp/550tq +/- (depending on the dyno, and preparation of intake and heads) that equals around 450hp in an SPF with sidepipes, and has "mild" street manners.

Mild is a relative term. It wont be Prius mild, You'd still have that lopey cam at idle relative to most all cars, but be nowhere near that choppy sounding idle that feels like it wants to stall or cause you grief.

I'll caveat this though - I've never built an engine, Brent has. He may have even built mine too. Having read many of Brent's posts in the past, I'm guessing he may even suggest a tighter LSA and slightly higher @.050 numbers too.

[Phx Mike]

Good call going with Brent. He is a true expert and will get you not only the right cam specs but will recommend the right brand and all the right parts to go with it.

[eschaider]

OP, I would give a fair amount of consideration to Brent (blykins) commentary. He has been building these things for a long time. The preference(s) he has expressed do not imply a 100% build behavior pattern for all builds of a particular type. What the preferences do express is the potential for an unpleasant outcome when certain component combinations are used in a build.

When you come to a forum like this one you will find some folks with very deep experience roots and of course others not so much. Many of the owners on this site that have gone through engine rebuilds have done it not because they were consciously making a decision to step up their build (in fairness some were) but more often than not because of a component or entire engine failure — just read the rebuild threads.

Brent is sharing his experience that amounts to orders of magnitude more engine builds for these cars than the most prolific non professional builder (that means guys like us). Most owners, even the very unlucky, do less than three or four rebuilds. When we begin to look at aftermarket castings like blocks and heads the aftermarket manufacturers simply do have the production volume necessary for quality Detroit had to have to keep up with sales demand back in the 60's while managing component failures and the associated warranty expense to a minimum.

Although we have 50 years of casting technology advancements behind us today, the biggest bugaboo is simply the short production runs associated with specialty shop unit volumes that have none of the production QC systems large Detroit OEMs like Ford use. Even worse if they did have them, the production runs are too short to make use of them.

In the end, the guy who writes the checks for the parts and work is, in actual fact, the ultimate decider at least in terms of build direction. Being the ultimate decider however does not make the check writer correct — it only makes him the ultimate decider. He is still subject to the same frailties, foibles, poor judgement and marketing hype that the rest of us are. Guys like Brent can save your bacon and your checkbook.

The fact that you solicit opinions as to the most prudent build path is good. All opinions however do not carry the same weight. Additionally, and this is deceptively easy to do (remember the foibles stuff?), if you come to the opinion solicitation table with a preconceived notion of what is right and what is wrong, looking for opinions to support that preconceived notion, you are doing yourself (and your checkbook) a disservice.

BTW if you haven't looked at the BBM FE cylinder heads you really ought to. They dispensed with the old 60's shovel style wedge chamber and used a modern, shallow, scalloped, high swirl chamber that works better with today's fuels. The porting and valve seats are to die for quality. The entire head is a step or more above the best FE heads available today — and the casting quality is 2017 large OEM quality.

In full disclosure they are made outside the US in Korea. Along with that it is worth noting the folks who do the casting are the ones that produced the complex high quality work for Hundai. It is extremely difficult to get a foundry of that size to build limited production heads and blocks of that caliber for a small market like ours especially if you limit your search to US foundries.

Brent has seen the heads and I think the blocks also. You ought to solicit his opinion — it is valuable. He has already been where you are about to go and he has been there more times than you ever will. The dog he has in this fight is looking for happy customers, without returns because it drives referral business and reputation.

Parting thought;

Imagine for a moment you're at an airport and as your plane begins to board there is an airline employee, at the gate, offering parachutes for $10. In fairness he advises you that they are only necessary in less than 50% of the flights. Do you want to fly on that plane?

— just saying ...


Ed

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dimis

The common conservative hyraulic cam options seems to be around 242/248 LSA 112

Or my old school 245/245 LSA 114 solid flat tappet. It was wonderful when it came out in 1963, and it still is today.

[2bars]

Yeah, I feel more knowledge will make for a better engine.
I can say that while most of the time I drive them at 1/4 throttle with the occasional blip or a quick ride to 65. On the other hand, while I think my GT500 with 550 hp is a bad snake. Then I go to the Shelby bash, take it on the track at spring mountain and get passed by a super snake like I'm driving a Prius. Dam!
On those days it is flat out with the pedal matted. I can't wait to do that with the Cobra.
I don't drag race much. I do like the road course. That was part of our conversation.
I will be excited to take weight off the front of the car.
I don't compeat mind you, just have fun on track days. And this is part of why big hp numbers are not at the top of !y list.
Now something to ask about side pipes. What and where do you get better flowing exhaust? I have a superformance

[2bars]

I may not have responded to everyone's post here, but I appreciate them all.
Before starting the project I read every thread on here with similar topic all the way back to 2002. There is so much good stuff from experience.

[blykins]

BBM heads would be highly superior to the Edelbrocks and need no port work out of the box to hit 300 cfm.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Or my old school 245/245 LSA 114 solid flat tappet. It was wonderful when it came out in 1963, and it still is today.

Are you still calling the operator to place a long distance or an overseas call too?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Are you still calling the operator to place a long distance or an overseas call too?

Uhhh, it's in the "Camshaft Hall of Fame" just outside of Cleveland. You just don't get any better than that.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by 2bars

Now something to ask about side pipes. What and where do you get better flowing exhaust? I have a superformance

Much will depend upon whether you want to buy a set of complete sidepipes, or whether you want modify what you have.

Side Pipes:

• Firefly Specializing in Superformance after market
• Gas-N GAS-N Performance Products - Home

Mufflers:

• Flowmaster Slimline Search Results
• Classic Chambered Cobra Packs Classic Chambered Exhaust Inc. - Products
• Jones Exhaust Performance Exhaust Systems
• Stainless Specialties

Threads / discussions to check out:

• need sidepipe options to get the decibel level down
• SPF side pipes vs Gas-N: Exhaust options | Superformance Cobra Owners
• SPF side pipes vs Gas-N: FireFly or GAS-U pipes for Superformance
• Comments from owner testing of Flowmaster Slimine against others: "I had several visitors from the Cobra club watching these tests. Everyone noticed that the engine made more power and was a LOT [quieter]" Muffler Testing - Page 3 - FFCars.com : Factory Five Racing Discussion Forum
• Question about rattle in CR sidepipe

[patrickt]

The serious guys in my local club just bolt on "shorties" before they track it. They look pretty much like this:

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Uhhh, it's in the "Camshaft Hall of Fame" just outside of Cleveland. You just don't get any better than that.

Would just "outside of Cleveland" be a euphemism for the bottom of the Lake Erie, with the rest of the junk?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Would just "outside of Cleveland" be a euphemism for the bottom of the Lake Erie, with the rest of the junk?

No, more towards the Akron and Canton direction. You know the Akron Iron Company traces its roots back to the 1870's. Yesssiiirreeeee, that's why we call it "old school iron." Nuthin's better than that. None of this aluminum roller PBR beer can crap. Old school iron, baby.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

No, more towards the Akron and Canton direction. You know the Akron Iron Company traces its roots back to the 1870's. Yesssiiirreeeee, that's why we call it "old school iron." Nuthin's better than that. None of this aluminum roller PBR beer can crap. Old school iron, baby.

How far back do you trace the lineage of your fiberglass body? Way back 10 years or so? Billet aluminum baby, nuthin's better (or lighter) than that of the original incarnation of the Shelby Cobra. None of this plastic and body filler Tupperware crap.

See current thread on "fiberglass itch."

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

How far back do you trace the lineage of your fiberglass body? Way back 10 years or so? Billet aluminum baby, nuthin's better (or lighter) than that of the original incarnation of the Shelby Cobra. None of this plastic and body filler Tupperware crap.

See current thread on "fiberglass itch."

Incorrectumundo... Fiberglass has its origins in glass, which comes from sand. Sand is older than aluminum, so it's better. And, in fact, aluminum never occurs as a metal in nature but is found only in the form of its compounds. Betcha didn't know that, did ya.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Incorrectumundo... Fiberglass has its origins in glass, which comes from sand. Sand is older than aluminum, so it's better. And, in fact, aluminum never occurs as a metal in nature but is found only in the form of its compounds. Betcha didn't know that, did ya.

So, you painted your Cobra, which traces its origins to sand, the color beige? How ironic is that?

Well, at least "Al" is an element on the periodic table. Is fiberglass or sand? Nope, you'll need compounds.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

So, you painted your Cobra, which traces its origins to sand, the color beige? How ironic is that?

Well, at least "Al" is an element on the periodic table. Is fiberglass or sand? Nope, you'll need compounds.

Are you aware of the numerous studies that link exposure to aluminum with greater cognitive decline with time and that also indicate that those exposed individuals are at a significantly increased risk of dementia? Yup, not making that up....

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Are you aware of the numerous studies that link exposure to aluminum with greater cognitive decline with time and that also indicate that those exposed individuals are at a significantly increased risk of dementia? Yup, not making that up....

Equally I'm aware of the study that suggests dihydrogen oxide is deadly.
100% correlation of death for those who have consumed it.
I still drink it frequently, I suspect you do too.

Perhaps it has more to do with the AL beer cans the subjects were drinking out of?