390 FE oiling coolant

[74Torino]

I recently bought a used 390fe block, very low miles, autozone remanufacture of a 501 block with a 3u crank, 30 over. I got a great deal on it because the owner said it was oiling the coolant, he thought it could be lack of thread sealer or something with his radiator and the trans lines. Either way, I installed it a couple weeks ago and what do you know, it's oiling the coolant. During the assembly, i used thread sealer over the head bolts, rocker shafts, and intake bolts. The leak isn't so bad, I've gone about 300 miles with it so far and i only had to add almost a quart of oil the other day. I'm still driving it because it's my only car and it runs very good and very cool. The oil is super clean, but obviously the coolant is pretty brown and milky, but like i said, it still runs very cool. i know that these FEs can get cracks in the oil galley and they need to be sleeved, this block already has sleeves in the galley. One of the sleeves is just barely below the deck surface, just enough to notice. Could that be causing a leak? I'm also running a HV oil pump with 10w-40, it gets 80 psi cold starting and runs around 60 when cruising, never drops below 20 at hot idle. Could high psi be forcing a leak somewhere? I've garage rebuilt a couple FEs for this car and I've never had this problem, they were all very used with much lower oil pressure. I'm also using cylinder heads off another FE that had no problems. I'm guessing and hoping that maybe the oil is pushing by the thread sealer and I need to clean the head bolts and use more. Any thoughts about a fix would be much appreciated, thanks everyone.

[olddog]

I believe the FE pumps oil to the valve train from the block, through the head gasket, then through the head. The head gasket is most likely letting the oil leak over to the coolant. There is no bolt that goes through both oil and coolant, to the best of my knowledge. I suspect you looked right at the problem, the sleeve sits too deep in the block, therefore the head gasket is not sealing.

I'm surprised, sense you knew there was a problem and had it apart, that you didn't have a good machine shop look it over for you, especially after noticing the sleeve issue. I hate to kick a man when he is down, but you should learn from your mistakes. If you learn from every mistake, someday you will become a genius.

[olddog]

About 2/3 to 3/4 down on this web page there are pictures showing the oil passage to the valve train.

https://www.diyford.com/ford-fe-engi...omplete-guide/

The oil does go up through the slop in that head bolt, so you want to be careful not to plug off the oil to the valves, with a bunch of thread sealer. You will note that there is a water passage on the other side of the head bolt that the oil passage uses. I would have to see what the sleeve looks like to say if the low sleeve is causing the problem or not. There could be a crack in the block that is allowing oil to get into the coolant. Anyway I suspect these four oil passages to the heads are the most likely place for this to happen.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by 74Torino

Any thoughts about a fix would be much appreciated, thanks everyone.

Pull the engine, and take it to someone who know's FE's. Have them disassemble it, repair and rebuild it.

[olddog]

You might want to read this thread on this site.

Re-Torque heads and intake?? 390fe

[74Torino]

I attached a file of the sleeve that is sunken in. I cant afford a shop, nor do I have the time, I'll enjoy doing this myself whether I mess up or not. I will probably get better head gaskets, I'm using fel pros right now, and resemble it from them up. Maybe even go back to a stock oil pump as well. I'm going to contact the guy I bought this block from and see how bad the problem was when he had it, being that it's not that much of a problem with me. I figure if there's a difference between how much it oiled the coolant with him and with me after reassembling it, it's more likely a gasket and not a crack somewhere.

[olddog]

When you said "Sleeve," I took that to mean the cylinder bore had been Sleeved. The cylinder bores in the picture do not look like they have been Sleeved.

What I see in the picture is that the oil gallery coming up to the valve train has been restricted. Typically they tap that hole. Then bore a hole through a plug, and screw the plug in. Your block appears to have a pressed in restrictor. It is fine that it is recessed.

There are four of these oil holes. Notice the water jacket to the right of the head bolt. Put a straight edge from the oil hole to the water jacket and make sure the deck is flat. Also look for a crack in the block between the head bolt and the water jacket. The deck can be crack free and the crack be down in the hole. I would try pressurizing the head bolt whole with a compressed air rubber tipped nozzle.

[74Torino]

Originally Posted by olddog

When you said "Sleeve," I took that to mean the cylinder bore had been Sleeved. The cylinder bores in the picture do not look like they have been Sleeved.

What I see in the picture is that the oil gallery coming up to the valve train has been restricted. Typically they tap that hole. Then bore a hole through a plug, and screw the plug in. Your block appears to have a pressed in restrictor. It is fine that it is recessed.

There are four of these oil holes. Notice the water jacket to the right of the head bolt. Put a straight edge from the oil hole to the water jacket and make sure the deck is flat. Also look for a crack in the block between the head bolt and the water jacket. The deck can be crack free and the crack be down in the hole. I would try pressurizing the head bolt whole with a compressed air rubber tipped nozzle.

Yea, I guess sleeve was a bad term to use. Restrictor makes more sense. I'll try pressurizing it when I take it apart. I read on that thread you posted that a certain loctite on the head bolts can temporarily fix a crack in the head bolt holes, I might do that in the meantime.

[olddog]

Do all four holes have a restrictor press in? If yes, then it was likely done to restrict oil flow.

If not, then it is possible that the tube that is pressed in was a piss poor attempt to fix a known crack in the block. Perhaps it didn't seal or perhaps the crack migrated further past the tube. Getting to too many ifs, but if so you would need to pull the tube to see what's going on.

[74Torino]

I just called the guy I bought it from. He said all the oil galleys had those restrictors in them. I asked about how bad the problem was when he had it, he said that in 6 non-consecutive miles the coolant was gummed up and it was overheating. I’ve gone about 400 miles now and only added oil, and I haven’t done anything with the coolant. That reassures me it’s likely a head gasket problem then, or it could be a crack in one of the head bolt holes still and the thread sealer I used helped slow the leak down. At least now I’m pretty sure that I won’t be needing to remove and replace the oil restrictors, I can’t imagine how anything I did during reassembly would have slowed down a leak coming from there.

[MaSnaka]

I had the problem of oil getting into my coolant on my old 390. I found a fix from gessard (sp) machine shop. There was a write up with detailed instructions. The fix was to sleeve the oil galley that comes from the cam to the heads. There is one on each side. Suggested using a roll pin or hollow push rod tube. I used a stainless piece of tubing and epoxied it in with JB Weld. I used a q-tip and applied the epoxy sparingly. You want to be sure you don't put the sleeve in so deep it contacts the cam. I also had iron heads and had them resurfaced where they meet the head gasket. Machinist said the surface was like a washboard. The problem went away so I'm not sure what fixed the problem. My tube installation, new head gasket or resurfacing of the heads ?? The engine stayed in the car and didn't have to be removed. I was purging oil from the coolant system for a long time.

Good luck.
John

[olddog]

Torino - it's possible that the oil you see in the coolant is oil left in the block from the original problem. The quart of oil you had to add, may not have went into the coolant. You may actually already have the problem fixed.

A quart of oil in less than 4 gallons of coolant would be pretty ugly. I would monitor it closely and see if the coolant is getting more oil in it or staying the same. If it appears to stay the same, then maybe all you need to do is flush the coolant several times.

It's possible the heads were cracked, and you used different heads, fixing the problem. If you still have the heads that was on it when it leaked bad, try pressure testing those heads. If you find a cracked head, you can be pretty certain you have already fixed it, unless there was a second crack in the block. That's not very likely. I hope it works out for you.

[74Torino]

Originally Posted by olddog

Torino - it's possible that the oil you see in the coolant is oil left in the block from the original problem. The quart of oil you had to add, may not have went into the coolant. You may actually already have the problem fixed.

A quart of oil in less than 4 gallons of coolant would be pretty ugly. I would monitor it closely and see if the coolant is getting more oil in it or staying the same. If it appears to stay the same, then maybe all you need to do is flush the coolant several times.

It's possible the heads were cracked, and you used different heads, fixing the problem. If you still have the heads that was on it when it leaked bad, try pressure testing those heads. If you find a cracked head, you can be pretty certain you have already fixed it, unless there was a second crack in the block. That's not very likely. I hope it works out for you.

Thank you. I thought at first it was residual, but as the oil level drops(no obvious external leaks) the coolant level rises. I’m also using probably a 70/30 mix of water and coolant, so i assume that’s why it hasn’t gummed up everything. I don’t have the old cylinder heads to check. I ordered some high performance cylinder head gaskets from fel pro. I’ve heard some very mixed responses on the ability of the head bolts to even leak, but I’ll seal them up anyways.

[olddog]

Some engines the head bolt holes are dilled into the water jackets. The FE is not that type of design. The FE head bolt holes are blind holes (that means they stopped drilling and there is a cast iron bottom in the hole). You can test each hole with an air hose. They should hold air.

Depending on what you use on the threads to seal them, you are changing how far you stretch the bolt at a given torque. You could be making things worse, if you are not getting the bolts to the proper stretch. Torque recommendations are generally given as dry (no lube) or lubed, to achieve the correct amount of stretch. You put RTV on the threads, who knows what the torque should be.

Good luck.

PS
Only the 4 head bolts between the oil passage and the water jacket, could have a crack from oil to water. I would only seal those.

[olddog]

If you pull the heads to replace the gaskets, you should check the deck with a straight edge. Look especially close at the four oil passages going to the heads. The deck should be perfectly flat and not scratched up. See if you can slide a 0.001" feeler gauge under the straight edge in the area of those oil passages, that head bolt hole, and the near by water jacket. If 0.001" will slide under increase the sizes until you find which one will not fit. That will tell you how far the deck is from flat.

If it is not flat is should be milled flat, but if you cannot afford it, I would consider a thin coat of a good RTD in the low spot. You want just enough to fill the low spot and not quirt else where.

Also look for a crack in the block with bright lights. If you find nothing wrong, you may want to pull those restrictor tubes and replace them with ones that are long enough to go almost to the cam. Then seal them in place, like was mention in the other thread that I put a link to above.