FE vs Roush vs Blueprint

[Gus M]

Need guidance from my Cobra gang.

I currently own a RT4 BDR with 427 Iconic motor with less then 600 miles on it. So far, I like the motor and the car. I'm now looking to add to my stable, a SFP S/C that has a Ford 450CI 437 HP FE Motor. I'm not a gear head and have no idea about what's a good, dependable, "not to worry" about engine that would not need a lot of TLC.

The SFP car will see no track time, but will be a weekend driver, to club events, car shows, etc...I want it to look and SOUND tough. I like the idea of a "big block", just so it fills the engine compartment but not at the expense of needing higher maintenance. Small block is fine as well.

Bottomline, is a Ford 450CI 437 HP FE Motor a good dependable motor that will need no special attention. Engine built by Southern Auto.

Thanks in advantage for sharing your years of experience.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Gus M

Bottomline, is a Ford 450CI 437 HP FE Motor a good dependable motor that will need no special attention. Engine built by Southern Auto.

Thanks in advantage for sharing your years of experience.

I've had a 447 cubic inch FE with a solid flat tappet cam in my car for the last 15 years. It looks, sounds, smells and feels exactly as you would want. BUT, you have to be a moderately talented mechanic or it will be in the shop a good bit. I've never had her in a shop and don't even know who I'd take her to if I had to. So, if you want the truth, you don't have to be a super-mechanic, just be moderately talented. Either that or have a shop that you trust near by.

[Dwight]

simple answer; yes

[Dwight]

in the header you list Blue Print. Why?

[Gus M]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I've had a 447 cubic inch FE with a solid flat tappet cam in my car for the last 15 years. It looks, sounds, smells and feels exactly as you would want. BUT, you have to be a moderately talented mechanic or it will be in the shop a good bit. I've never had her in a shop and don't even know who I'd take her to if I had to. So, if you want the truth, you don't have to be a super-mechanic, just be moderately talented. Either that or have a shop that you trust near by.

Thanks Patrickt. Like what kind of "moderate" things would need to be done?

[Gus M]

Originally Posted by Dwight

in the header you list Blue Print. Why?

Dwight, thanks also. I was comparing the FE to a Roush and Blueprint motors.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Gus M

Thanks Patrickt. Like what kind of "moderate" things would need to be done?

FEs tend to leak. They leak oil, coolant, and their Holley carbs require periodic maintenance just to keep the car running nicely. Remember, the last time a car came out of Detroit with a carb most of the gas station mechanics we have now weren't even born. The usual simple, straight forward tune up stuff. Plugs, MSD maintenance, timing, oil changes. A non-solid lifter cam requires no adjustments, pretty much, so that's easy. And goofy stuff tends to fall apart from time to time. For example, I had the harmonic balancer up front completely separate from it's rubber bonding. Most of the maintenance was exactly the same stuff we did as kids in the 70's with cars that were constantly breaking and you had to fix them yourself because funds were tight. None of the stuff is particularly difficult, but you either have to do it yourself or have a trusted "old style" garage near by that you trust.

[Gus M]

Originally Posted by patrickt

FEs tend to leak. They leak oil, coolant, and their Holley carbs require periodic maintenance just to keep the car running nicely. Remember, the last time a car came out of Detroit with a carb most of the gas station mechanics we have now weren't even born. The usual simple, straight forward tune up stuff. Plugs, MSD maintenance, timing, oil changes. A non-solid lifter cam requires no adjustments, pretty much, so that's easy. And goofy stuff tends to fall apart from time to time. For example, I had the harmonic balancer up front completely separate from it's rubber bonding. Most of the maintenance was exactly the same stuff we did as kids in the 70's with cars that were constantly breaking and you had to fix them yourself because funds were tight. None of the stuff is particularly difficult, but you either have to do it yourself or have a trusted "old style" garage near by that you trust.

Patrickt, thanks, that helps me better understand what to expect!

[blykins]

Well it certainly won't hurt itself only making 437 hp.......wow......

[olddog]

You do not want solid lifters. They require periodic valve adjustment. Solid roller lifters have a short life and a very short life if the valves are not adjusted properly.

FE rocker arms require better than OEM, when heavy valve springs and high lift cams are used. Not all high performance rocker arms are a good setup. You want a good builder who know what works and specializes in FE engines.

The factory blocks have a poor oil design. A good builder, who specializes in FE engines, knows what modifications to make.

The factory blocks were designed for a rope seal on the rear main seal, so cutting the groove did not require a perfect circle on the same center as the crank. Modern seals do require a near perfect circle on the same center as the crank. A rope seal is designed to slow a leak, but cannot stop it from leaking. If you pack a rope seal too tight Friction will heat the crank until it turns blue. There are several other places FE engines are prone to leak from. Very few FE engines are leak free and most of those will leak sooner or later. It is just a matter of how bad will the leak be.

If I wanted an FE I would not go to a mass produced engine shop. I would look at a smaller, detail oriented shop, that specializes in FE engines. Blykins who just replied above, is such a shop. The link to his website is in the footer of is reply.

Honestly from some of what you said, I am not certain a FE is what you want. All engines have some issues, but the FE was designed in the 1950's. To say it is not in the same ball park as a modern engine is an understatement. It's more like a baseball park compared to a tennis court.

[patrickt]

I will say that FE powered Cobras, as a general rule, are pretty easy to work on as compared to new cars. My auto shop text books from my classes in the 70's are actually quite timely for a lot of the issues that you face. In fact, I would say the Cobra is the easiest car to work on that I've ever owned. The main hardship is that everything is within a quarter inch of everything else.

[Gus M]

Olddog, Thanks for your input.

I've been doing due diligence on the FE and what you describe I've been hearing and reading about. I'm going to continue to seek as much info as I can on the FE and on this particular big block.

Any experience on how often (after how many miles) will the FE valves need to be lashed?

I read about the "tapping" noise that solid lifters can produce. Any input on the noise factor?

[FredG]

The only thing that sounds better than a high horsepower engine is a high horsepower engine with solid lifters. Love the sound of the gentle tapping.

Fred

Originally Posted by Gus M

Olddog, Thanks for your input.

I've been doing due diligence on the FE and what you describe I've been hearing and reading about. I'm going to continue to seek as much info as I can on the FE and on this particular big block.

Any experience on how often (after how many miles) will the FE valves need to be lashed?

I read about the "tapping" noise that solid lifters can produce. Any input on the noise factor?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Gus M

Any experience on how often (after how many miles) will the FE valves need to be lashed?

I read about the "tapping" noise that solid lifters can produce. Any input on the noise factor?

Hydraulic lifters need no maintenance. Solid lifters require periodic lashing, say every year or two. Honestly, they hold their lash pretty well and lashing them is not a difficult task. You may like the sound of solid lifters and you may not. I've actually had younger "car guys" say to me "Is it supposed to sound that way?" Click here to hear my solid lifter FE. It might be your cup of tea, and it might not....
Patrick's Solid Lifter FE Engine, Idling and Accelerating...

[ERA 626]

do a hydraulic roller FE problem solved... if you have a 427 car, put in an FE. If you have a small block car put in a small block...

[olddog]

Regular old school flat tappet solid lifters are reliable other than two things: the periodic adjustment; ZDP removed from the oil.

The ZDP additive in oil was causing O2 Sensor failures. Almost all, if not all, modern engines are either overhead cams or roller lifters, so ZDP was greatly reduced. The ZDP additive in oil was there to improve wear resistance. Modern oil needs an additive to increase ZDP if a flat tappet lifter is used. This goes for hydraulic or solid lifters.

So if you are not a gear head, and want a reliable engine, as you stated in your opening post, I would recommend a hydraulic roller lifter.

PS
Not all FE blocks were drilled for hydraulic lifters. Some relied on oil splashing to keep oil between the cam lobes and lifters. These blocks will only support solid lifters.

[patrickt]

... unless you find that you have fallen in love with the sound of those solid flat tappets.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

do a hydraulic roller FE problem solved... if you have a 427 car, put in an FE. If you have a small block car put in a small block...

It's hard to argue with this logic. However if someone wants an engine with no oil drips, it is hard to recommend they get an FE. That said most FE engines built by a good shop that specializes in FE engines can keep the drip to a tolerable level. It all depends on what the word tolerable means to the owner.

I personally believe that reliable FE engines exist. They are not rare, no-see-um mythical things. Plenty of them were made. Keep the power goals on the reasonable side, and it just isn't all that hard to have one built.

They are more expensive, but they are what went into these original cars, if originality has any meaning to you.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... unless you find that you have fallen in love with the sound of those solid flat tappets.

I love the sound Patrick, but you really can only hear it when it idles.

I find my wife's antique Singer Sewing Machine, with the foot peddle drive, satisfies my need to hear a mechanical song.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by olddog

However if someone wants an engine with no oil drips, it is hard to recommend they get an FE.

This finally eliminated my pesky oil drip of one dime sized drop after every hard run. That's a custom made diaper I fabbed up using New Pig oil-only absorbent material. The material is used for oil spill clean ups and will actually absorb oil directly out of water without absorbing the water itself. The material absorbs oil like a Pampers absorbs baby piss (a shockingly huge amount, as I recall) After more than a dozen years, the drip is gone.