New 427 vs old 427 - Page 2

Turk · #21 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 08:18 AM

I didn't touch it!!

It must be the other moderator who also hates aluminum motors.
He is kind a cranky right now, he is waiting for his car and I wouldn't put it past him to do something like that...

TURK
THE GOOD MODERATOR

Tony Ripepi · #22 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 11:37 AM

Good Thread and an interesting twist to the Poll ?????

I have an original 1966 427 in my Unique......Square internal cylinder casting as opposed to the round. Built from scratch. Edelbrock heads, Arias pistons, Eagle rods all internals from Gessford, stroked to 454 cu.in. Great motor looks right and does all that I want it to do. But, no matter what you do it is a 37 years old block !!!!!

I saw fireman Mike's CSX Aluminum block last Saturday at breakfast and was totally impressed. BTW you can NOT!!!!! trust the block to start building directly from Shelby....Check the alignment in the cam and crank holes and bore accordingly. The entire block needs to gone over carefully before you start, the grade eight bolts in the mains need to be changed out for ARP pieces etc.etc.

Given the choice today I would go with the new All Aluminum block and in the fullness of time I probably will

.

Tony R.

Pete C · #23 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 11:39 AM

Cranky, That was your funniest post yet. You're starting to get good at this gorilla posting thing. Toss a couple of humor grenades and move on. Keep at it.

Cheers, Pete

computerworks · #24 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Turk
I didn't touch it!!

It must be the other moderator who also hates aluminum motors.
He is kind a cranky right now, he is waiting for his car and I wouldn't put it past him to do something like that...

TURK
THE GOOD MODERATOR

I wouldn't think of tampering with poll results...
...that's...that's ...so....Floridian!

Ron
The Moderate Moderator

(..maybe it was the Admin? ...he's mad about his FE as well)

searanch · #25 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 12:37 PM

he...

LateApex · #26 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 02:25 PM

Rick Lake,

Is your scale broken? Over two hundred pounds difference between and iron and aluminum motor. Help me with the math. We are talking pounds right????????

a427sc · #27 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 03:33 PM

I voted for the Lite Weight aluminium moder. Then I could be faster than Cranky with his small block... oh wait, my iron 427 is ALREADY faster than his, Never Mind

McFEz

RICK LAKE · #28 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 04:13 PM

Late Ampex Lets do the math Alum block 118 lbs Iron block about 180lbs. Intake manifold iron 85 lbs, alum single plane 32 lbs. Iron heads 48 lbs Alum heads 18 lbs each. Alum brackets 2lbs old brackets 5 lbs. Alum pulleys (3) 3 lbs steel ones 6 lbs. Flywheel 40 lbs alum flywheel with insert 18lbs. Eagle rods are lighter than stock rods by 810 grams to 27.08 oz for a lemans rod THAT's about 200 lbs. Are there any questions???????? The scale in not broke, may be 1-2 lbs off BUT This is the Numbers. Have a nice day. Check with ERA on a Iron motor 428 or 427 675 to 685 iron motor 460 to 480 for a shelby motor. I hope this help you

Rick Lake

bmalone · #29 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 04:21 PM

I could be wrong, but I think many guys with iron motors run aluminum manifolds. That's where the big weight is (more than the heads) and it is relatively easy to remedy. Typical saving is 50 lbs., no?

RICK LAKE · #30 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 04:42 PM

Bmalone I maybe wrong but this was about a old iron fe motor verses and alum motor FE if you call the Shelby block an FE. I think all 427 motors came with an Alum intake, ask Cal Metal. The Weight is about 200 lbs between them. OK Bill Rick Lake

ERA 626 · #31 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 05:41 PM

Amen KiethBrown
As Kieth stated the Iron vote is off by 426 votes!
So it should be about 26 to 3 in favor of New Alumin.

Hmm lets see, superior oiling system, alumin cools better, lighter, stronger and yea about the same money = no brainer

as far as original unless you have a CSX3xxx we ALL have a replica. go with the BETTER motor CSX Aluminum 427

PS whomever fxxxxx with the vote fix it!

RACER X #99 · #32 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 06:50 PM

Fez, What do you mean IS faster than Cranky's? Just what do you mean by IS? Your car IS faster thanCranky's because his motor IS broken? Or Your car was faster than Cranky's because his motor IS broken. You will have to explain the meaning of what IS is.
Cranky

BTW I voted for Iron

bmalone · #33 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 09:58 PM

Rick, maybe I'm brain-damaged, and don't get me wrong, I like the alum. block, but if we know original 427s came with alum. intakes, why count the 50 lb. weight difference?

I can believe the difference in total weight is 200#. If that's what it is--that's what it is. But you are counting the weight of an iron intake in your figures.

We'll have to weigh-in when Jamo gets his done. His aluminum against my iron. Oh wait, maybe the cars will still weigh about the same with drivers' weight factored.

Sorry, Jamo.

BTW, my Contemporary weighs 2500. I do run an aluminum flywheel also.

Jamo · #34 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 11:15 PM

Oh no problem BOB--you a$$hole.

RICK LAKE · #35 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 06:46 AM

BMalone Bob go over to Jamo, Have a 12 pack. Sit in the sun for about 4 hour, then have Jamo explain it to you??? The California smog level must be up again. ALL IRON FE MOTOR AGAINST AN ALUMIUM SHELBY FE MOTOR. ARE YOUR Reading glasses ON???

Jamo understands. Late party last night, too much Wine.

Have a Nice Day Bob Rick

Pete C · #36 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 07:18 AM

Good Lord, Jamo, I can't believe you Bobed, Bill. Bill I'm sorry about the Bob, By Pete

bmalone · #37 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 09:21 AM

The original question was would you rather have a 30 year-old iron "427" (not FE), or a new aluminum 427. Since we know "iron" 427s came with aluminum intakes, I think it is safe to assume the question is just what it says: which motor would you rather have?

To abide by your calculation, would imply that an iron 427 owner would take off his aluminum intake and replace it with a cast iron one.

I think Jamo is mad at me--he calls me Bob when he is.

Evan H. · #38 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 12:32 PM

My 2 cents.

I weighed the aluminum block option. First it is a nice peice. Probably does oil a little better than the original Ford/Edsel. It is expensive though.

Cool better? Yeah probably. Still going to run approximately the same temps though. In fact two of my friend's CSX Cobras both with aluminum blocks and heads runs hotter than my original FE. Don't know why but they do. Go figure.

Power? Iron heads will make more power than aluminum so I was told.

The difference in weight between the blocks is no where near 200lbs. Its more like 50lbs. This is what I was told.

Durability? About the same unless your really pushing it. Then the nod would go to the seasoned iron block.

Originality? Iron block all the way. If your block is in good condition and is no more than .15 over your fine. Defects. Thats what pressure testing and sonic testing are for. The new aluminum block is a center oiler. Its not even an SO. Many of new aluminum block motors are taken to 454 via stroking also.

Strength?. No way your going to tell me that an aluminum block has more structural integrity than a solid condition seasoned SO block with cross bolted mains. Especailly a REAL full race NASCAR SO block with high nickel content, forged crank with extra wide journals and NASCAR rods. Sorry sell that stuff elsewhere.

Value. Depends what your after. If you are going for pure originality and aesthetics there is no choice. Both engines, iron or aluminum if done right will run between $20K and $30K.

While there are only a limited number of originals and the rest replicas (with the CSX being the only REAL Cobra replicating the original-Sorry had to get that in) of the original if you want the same heart that beat in the original Cobra and all the sensations and intangible satisfaction of knowing that you have the same power plant that made the Cobra a legend to begin with then again there is only one way. FE. Period. End of game.

And more specifically, if you have a CSX, new or old you can justify either approach. The new CSX is correct with either engine because it is a Cobra, not merely a replica of one (sorry) regardless of which way you go. There is no right or wrong. Old or new. I chose the original '65 427. I wanted my car to clone its forefathers in every respect. I wanted it to be the same car separated by 40 years in gestation.

There is an intangible excitment and thrill knowing you are feeling the same performance and power dished out by your Cobra's anestors 40 years ago. Its a rush and a trip back in a time machine every time I get behind the wheel. Just put the Stones or Steppen Wolfe in the CD player and your back in 1965. The ultimate trip back to the future.

RACER X #99 · #39 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 01:15 PM

Anybody know what the 5000+ hp top fuel and funny car engines are made of? I know the Ford guys stopped using the Cammer when they got up around 1200 hp. The FE SO could not take that much hp without exploding.
Shelby advertises their new 427 is good for 1000 hp.

The FE SO was a great engine a while back.
Evan , Not even a SO??? That was a quick fix back then to an already existing design. Today engines oiling systems are much better than the old SO design.

Evan, be satisfied that you have an original engine but don't try to convince anybody that yesterdays engine is better than todays.

Your Kirkham/Shelby may be a better Cobra than an original but you are still using a 30 year old design for power.

RD

Jeff Frigo · #40 (**permalink**) 11-09-2002, 01:17 PM

Evan has got a CD player in his cobra?



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