New 427 vs old 427

ERA 626 · #1 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 09:57 PM

Lets throw this one to the wolves for debate.
Lets assume that you are using a 427 FE
Would you rather have a 30 + year old overpriced, rusted, machined, tweaked old Iron 427 s/o to be "original or a new aluminum Carroll Shelby 427.
About the same price.
Mike

computerworks · #2 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:03 PM

...I abstain

ERA 626 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:06 PM

Ron,
I already know your responce.

computerworks · #4 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:08 PM

Turk · #5 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:09 PM

That makes two moderators who abstained. We may have to close this thread however...

TURK

RICK LAKE · #6 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:30 PM

MrMike GEEEEEE I wonder witch motor I would put in my car. A 675 lbs FE iron motor or a Alumium 452 FE motor at 470lbs. I have both, which one is the spare???????

I just don't know. I will get back to you Mike.
Hey

Turk what motor are you putting in your new other car???

Rick Lake

Jamo · #7 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:33 PM

In my best imitation of Cosby's imitation of Shel...

"480 CUBIC INCHES OF ALUMINUM!!!!"

Turk · #8 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 10:55 PM

Rick.
I didn't know there were any other legitemate options.
I am putting in a SideOiler.
Too bad they don't make those in aluminum.

Besides I have not heard anyone else using a Aires or a Dove motor in a Ford Cobra.
Wait ...sorry, I just heard that they ARE stamped Shelby... I guess that makes it Ok then..

I thought about it for a minute or so, but realized the weight was an issue.

With 42 gallons of fuel, a lightweight aluminum motor would upset the 50/50 weight distribution and I didn't want the front end, that light since I will be seriously racing this this on the track. I was also told, I have to keep an effective steering and couldn't figure out how to do it with almost no weight in the front.

I am trying for a properly balanced car. So alumium wouldn't work for me for extended duty and serious racing.

When I start hitting the show circuit, I will either get a Small Block or an aluminum one. Until then I have to use the Brand New NOS, never been in a car before Iron Sideoiler.

EVAN...Where are you???

KeithBrown · #9 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mrmike
Lets throw this one to the wolves for debate.
Lets assume that you are using a 427 FE
Would you rather have a 30 + year old overpriced, rusted, machined, tweaked old Iron 427 s/o to be "original or a new aluminum Carroll Shelby 427.
About the same price.
Mike

Dumb question - are they really about the same price? Southern automotive advertises the iron block 427 SO for $13.9 K, and the alum option another $4K. To me a $4000 adder is not about the same price. But I may be cheap!

Regards,

Keith

Turk · #10 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 11:09 PM

Keith,
Don't listen to them. Just look at the poll results. That tells the whole story.

TURK

RICK LAKE · #11 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 11:22 PM

Turk Good for you. If you wanted a real FE alumium motor, there was a 390 from the turd that was for sale about 8 months ago I do not know if it was sold. I E-Mailed Lynn Parks about it because of his collection and Dick Smith. I think they only made 2or 3 of these motors. Don't know if it's a side oiler? I am not turning 7000 rpm so top,side,middle, or bottom oiler, as long as all the bearing get oil thats all that matters. 1 note I am going dry sump in the spring, I think there is an advantage to this oiling system. We'll see. The old family misses you, ERA, lost but not forgotten Rick Lake

KeithBrown · #12 (**permalink**) 11-07-2002, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Turk
Keith,
Don't listen to them. Just look at the poll results. That tells the whole story.

TURK

Turk,

Heck I even voted for the alum 427, just because one of the assumptions stated that they were the same price.

BTW - don't you ever go to bed. I know why I am up - I am in Japan and we are 14 hours ahead of the EST guys, but by my calculation, it should be about 11:30 pm for you west coasters.

Regards,

Keith

KeithBrown · #13 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 12:10 AM

Ok, I must be suffering from Jet wag, oops, I mean jet lag - but less than an hour ago, the poll was 5 for the alum and 1 for the Iron block, - now it is 7 for alum and 427 for the iron block. All of this at 2 am EST. I smell an iron rat! Nice round number though!

Have I lost my mind again????

Come to think about it, don't answer that question. I am going to go now and have some sashimi and lots of saki.

dewa matta (Translation: "see you waiter", I mean "see you later"),

Keith

RACER X #99 · #14 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 04:00 AM

The iron block is the only choice. If a storm comes up and the water gets to rough I don't believe that aluminum will hold. You may find your craft dragged to to the other side of the harbor.

JBAIRD · #15 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 05:10 AM

The new alum. block is far superior in every way to the iron block except for the fact that it is not an original piece. Well lets see now, how many of us have original anything! The new block is sustantially stronger, considerably lighter, oils much better and is capable of MORE CUBIC INCHES. What's not to like? Oh yeah, being aluminum,it runs cooler . But it's still not a "Sideoiler" so I can see your point (for those of you who voted otherwise). This is a very good block. 60's nostalgia, 90's technology. If you guys use one of these, order a billet crank and have it slotted. They dont leak anymore..(Scat billet, Velasco or L.A. Enterprises).

RICK LAKE · #16 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 06:18 AM

ARE WE BACK IN FLORIDA???? SOMEONE STUFF THE BALLOT BOX!!!! I want a recount. 129 viewed the forumn and 441 voted. I smell something rotten going on. Side note I would have put a 427 side oiler if I could have found one that was not 30-60 over bore, sleved, or welding up. They motors are great for keeping originial look. The parts prices are very high. This is the end of 2002. New products are twice as strong in design as 40 years ago. The QUALITITY of materials is what SUCKS. Old cast iron motors had more nickel in them and other materials that made these blocks stronger and you could bore 60 over and not window the cylinder. I love the orginials like most of youb ut cann't aford to go that way. I saw a externial oil pump and pan at A FORD show the Guy wanted 1800.00$. The price was not adjustable. The pulleys where bent and rusted. 1 fitting was stripped but covered in dirt. He said it came off a road racing cobra. YEE RIGHT WHATEVER. I am buying a new AVIAID 3 stage pump, pan, brackets, adaptor for P/S pump and tank for 2500.00$. Where can I go wrong. I guess to each his own. HEY Brent How about fixing the vote. I was on until 1:30 am est and the vote was at 14 also, Did TURK get all of CALIFORNIA to vote?

Thanks Rick Lake ps I still like Alum. I have one

Bud Man · #17 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 06:58 AM

Good points all.......

I built my car with a very strong commitment to duplicating as much of the original details as possible. Looked a long time for a 1965 sideoiler block (C5 AE H) that was standard or +.017 max, and finally found one.

Gotta tell you, though, as strong as the later FE's were, it still is a nearly 40 year old piece of iron, and well, who knows what can happen. And anyone who has been around these engines knows what the replacements costs are. Even if it is a NOS standard block, its still 1950's - 60's technology and metallurgy, and unseasoned blocks can often hide catastrophic defects In some ways, they should just be considered a museum piece, and reserved for those folks restoring concours originals.

I never considered the Shelby block (a beautiful piece) because of the issue of originality, but did, until recently, hold out hope for a Genesis iron block. Same date codes could be had, reinforced in all the right places, better oiling and most important - NEW.

Having said all of that, Shelby aluminum block or original 427?

Beats me.

Bud

Turk · #18 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 07:10 AM

I suppose all you beer can fanciers will insist on putting an aluminum crank in there too , to keep it correct and true to the heritage of the the alloy of their choice.

They even call the endurance race "Ironman" not ALLOYMAN. Get a grip people.

People do aluminum for one reason, because the iron 427 they bought on ebay turned out to have a crack on it. That is the only reason someone would do that.

That bastard ,if I catch them, I will sue him for misrepresenting the block!!

TURK

As for the poll....don't worry about a thing I doubt it that the iron block will get another vote past 427.

ERA 626 · #19 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 07:53 AM

when I stated "same price" I meant all of the machine work the old Iron will require to make it ready for assembly.
Not to mention good luck finding one...
$6000 for the shelby machined and ready too assemble.

Also I would like to know about the Aries subject, George Anderson "nimby" told me that the Shelby just purchaced the Aries machine facilty and all of the serial #'s to date (mine will be low 300's) are still made by Shelby (I may be wrong)??

PS rick,
remember the 428 I was building? well lets just say it has to come apert again

ERA 626 · #20 (**permalink**) 11-08-2002, 07:56 AM

moderators only to edit the poll??? hhhmmm......



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