Alum Flywheel Swap etc

[Clois Harlan]

I finally got around to upgrading my stock flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate with a new McCloud aluminium flywheel,Hays racing clutch, and pressure plate.

What I found after pulling my transmission was that my Hydraulic T/O brg has been leaking and has ruined my old " 500 miles" clutch disk. So I have two or three questions for everyone.

1. Has anyone found a fitting that will work in place of the
banjo fittings" on the McCloud Throw Out Bearing?

2. How long do the o-rings last in most throw out bearings?

3. Also, does anyone have a source for a roller needle PILOT bearing for the Top Loader transmission.

It took me all afternoon cleaning my transmission, bellhousing, etc. from all the mess and I really don't want to do this any more often than I have to.


Thanks in adavance,


Clois

[Clois Harlan]

Okay where are all the Hyd T/O bearing pro's luking today?

[misfit41]

I wonder if there would be any chance of using brake cleaner to clean up the clurch disc ?

[RICK LAKE]

Clois H Clois how that last clutch disc? I would think with the 3rd gear racing at R&G and still running good numbers that it may need a rest in peace plac. Why cann't that banjo fitting be changed to a screw in hose fitting You could weld on to the other casing more metal for more threads to hold the fitting in place. I have a new tilton that I didn't put in my car because of watching the problems some of you have with this setup. I will stay with the fork and slave cylinder. I it weaks, it on the out side of the bell housing. Hope you had a great holiday, you and the family, Say HI to Lew S. You will like the motor with the new flywheel. Have a good one. Rick Lake

[Clois Harlan]

I have a spare T/O bearing since I had all my problems at Omaha in 2001. I think I may try and weld a small bushing on the fitting that threads into the T/O bearing and then use a straight fitting out of the bearing and buy a AN 3 braided hose with a 90 degree fitting on one end for the top and bottom of the bearing.

Also, just an FYI. When you buy a Billet Aluminium Flywheel the center hole that goes over the end of the crank is under sized .050 and must be machined.



Clois

[RICK LAKE]

Clois H I put an Alum flywheel on befor R&G Hayes and it bolted right ON. Did you call Mcloed and ask about this?? It doesnot seam right. Did you mike your crank? It should slide on tight. I put a thin coat of antiseize on mine. Boy you are having alot of problems. Hope it gets better. Rick Lake

[jwoodard]

do you have a pedal stop on your clutch pedal? A likely cause of the leakage might be from the hydraulic throw out bearing being over extended and damaging the o-rings. This is not an uncommon problem with these type T/O bearings. Just a thought.

[Bud Man]

I have run a McLeod Hydraulic Throwout Bearing in my sideoiler powered Kirkham for over a year with no problems. Yes, you do have to pull your trans to replace a leaking unit, but there are advantages in simplicity, smoothness and pedal feel that I believe makes it well worth the while. Some thoughts:

1. Proper set up is very important. Ideally, McLeod builds the unit to fit your particular application, that is, they will ask you to take an exact measurement from the surface of the pressure plate fingers/tines (depending on what type you are using) to the trans mounting flange. It is extremely important that is measurement be EXACT. Also, correct (read "equal") adjustment of the clutch fingers is mandatory.

2. Some folks inexplicably use DOT 4 fluid instead of the mandated DOT 3. McLeod is very specific about this, but the mistake is often made. The victims of this "oversight" will be the various O Rings in the system.

3. The original style oil-lite pilot bearing should be sufficient if the concentricity and proper length of the mainshaft has been given proper attention. They are very tough. A very SMALL dab of moly on the ID of that bearing is added insurance, as is a very light buff with crocus cloth on the mainshaft where it connects with the bearing.

4. Rick is right. I am running a McLeod aluminum flywheel and it was a marvelous, close toleranced fit on my LeMans crank. If you are experiencing problems, check to ensure the proper application and if correct, look for burrs or other flaws on the crank boss.

5. A clutch pedal stop is a good idea. Insurance.

6. Be very careful when bolting up the pressure plate to the aluminum flywheel. The holes are not heli-coiled (should be), and will strip easily. Use a minute amount of antiseize to give the next guy a break, but use it very sparingly or it will give you a false torque reading.

Bud

[PatBuckley]

Bud -

A clutch pedal stop with a hydraulic t/o bearing is more than insurance - it is mandatory! Also, when tightening any fasteners use refer to the torque spec sheet or the ARP spec sheet for the fastener you are using and use the recommended lubricant.

Pat

[Bud Man]

Pat:

Yes, you are correct, although there is a different way to skin that cat...probably will save that for another post.

On aluminum flywheels.......

I would love to see McLeod go to either a helicoil insert, or even better, a threaded steel insert on their aluminum units. I have seen flywheel to PP mounting holes stripped even when using properly prepared hardware properly sequenced and gradually torqued to spec. Slight weight penalty, but certainly worth it, particularly in disassembly/assembly situations. Probably a cost consideration...no?

Bud

[Pete Munroe]

Guys,

I have the VERY first of the latest McLeod hydraulic throwout bearings. It was a pre-production prototype...I voluntered to try it as it eliminated the "banjo" fittings.

The "banjo fittings" are gone...there is a new housing design.
It uses 90 degree machined fittings. They are sealed with TWO double o-rings...the fitting is retained in the housing by an expansion pin.

(Actually, the design is a very similar to a GM t/o bearing used in the Corvette...GM dropped the patent, and the design features can know be copied.)

I have had the new bearing installed for about 8 months and 2000 miles...two track events, etc...and it is still dry.

On installation it is IMPERATIVE that you limit the travel of the ram. (I used a bolt through the fiberglass footbox on my ERA 289 to stop the clutch pedal...whatever works on your car)...as soon as the clutch will release, add a 1/4 inch or so and stop the travel...if you limit the travel so the ram cannot over extend the ram will probably never leak.

The ram was never really the problem if installed with a travel limiter, the problem was the banjo's.

If you have the old bearing, call McLeod they will upgrade it for a nominal amount...DO NOT bother screwing around with the old banjo's...even if it's not leaking...when it's clutch replacement time, send it back to McLeod, they will install your guts in the new housing.

They are good people and will support the product.

Pete

[misfit41]

Ok ,
I have flywheel question,My 427 high rise motor has a mcloud aluminum,I already have a hayes billet steel for the med rise stroker in build now,I am thinking I should swap out,alloy on the med rise with the low end torque,billet on the high rise.
any input ? thanks,Tim

[RICK LAKE]

Misfit41 Tim I would go with the Alum flywheel for a couple of reasons 1 The car only wieght 2700 lbs. with you. A 15 lbs is fine for all driving except stop and go. If you don't ride the clutch I see no problem. 2 Pressure plate same thing, Guys are putting 3200 lbs plates on cars with 2500 lbs wieght. I but a Gold centerforce on my car and had shifting problems over 3500 rpm. Called them 4 times and talked about the sliding wieghts locking up the clutch and not letting it shift. I took the wieghts off and the shifting got alot better. I made one mistake and DIDN"T center the Lakewood on the block, it was .028 off center. This may have added to the shifting problem. I used all 6 bolts in the pressure plate. My plate is set up for Ford and Chevy bolt patterns. My motor is very mild and the Alum makes it nicer to race. 1/4 mile I leave at 1500 rpm or blow the Pilots off. The car runs 12.50's now with the same setup. I am building another Shelby motor to 489 or 496 with BB rods and roller cam I will use the same set up with a 3000 lbs pressure plate because of the tork and HP this motor is going to make. McLoed makes a twin disc that is tops. I have looked into this and may go with it. Do one thing and have the WHOLE crank assembly balanced, pulleys,dampener,crank,flywheel, and clutch assembly. I hope this helps. My motors all will idle at 750-800 rpm without shaking the crap out of me or the car. I like big tork motors, the hp is extra bonus. Let me know what happens. Rick Lake

[Clois Harlan]

I talked to Summit and they told me that the spec sheet indicates the flywheel is now undersized .050 and should be turned to my exact specifications.

I will be calling Red at McCloud when they open today to see if I can exchange my T/O brg for the new version. My machinist has my flywheels and will be exacting my new aluminium flywheel.


Thanks everyone. By the way I limit my clutch travel with a small chain on my pedal. My clutch extension is approximately 1/4" after engagement.

Clois