FE dyno challenge....
 

With all the drama, tension and innuendo regarding FE dyno figures, here's what I'd love to see :

Keith Craft, George @ Gessford, Eric @ Performance, Bill Parham etc all building an FE engine to a pricepoint.

Shelby alloy block, unlimited cubic capacity, must run pump gas, nominated "claimer" pricetag of, say, $20,000-

One weekend, one dyno, all engines for sale as soon as they're unbuttoned from the dyno. If one of the engine builders wants to get cute and build a $35K bullet and chalk it up to advertising, so be it - the buyer gets a heck of a deal. At the end of the day, specs and performance is known to all that are interested.

Ahhh, I can only dream !

Actually Craig we thought about the same thing but said they must all use the same parts and size...they can use whatever head work, cam and say crank they want but it must only be a certain size and must run on pump gas :)

Would be cool.

Matt

I think you're favoring(?) one builder already with your pricepoint.

I think a better price point might be in the $12,000 range. And no 'chalk it up to advertising'.

It good be you haven't felt ALL the undercurrents in this debate(?). Some builders might be guilty of not wanting the Holstein to give its milk up so cheaply and slowing the flow of cream into their refrigerators.

Sorry, just saw where you're from. Is that $20K Austrailian? If so, then ok.

Well, 10 hours after I posted this, look what appeared....
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...threadid=50315

Game on !!!

The game as described seems silly.

The whole hullaballoo started because of doubts
about the dyno figures posted. Even though
Keith Craft posted FULL particulars about what
was on/in each engine he posted HP numbers on.

Building and dynoing engines won't prove anything.
All that's needed is for one of the engines Keith Craft
posted about to be taken to a neutral dyno and run.

As for a contest between builders, I think that's been won, or
is in the process of being won based on the complaints from
other builders.

God bless America where if you sell higher priced goods that
don't perform as well as your competition's, you can get your
market share protected (or is that in France?).

Someone do a search on how many posts there have been on
just why exactly it costs so much more to build an FE than the
other types of engines.

Thanks

Hey, what the he!! happened to the other thread about the "Build-Off"??? Smells like sour grapes to me (just my opinion thank you).

Heck, get The Learning Channel involved.....it is no different than the Bike Build-Offs between the custom bike builders!!!!

With all the bull-sh!t on TV anymore, I'd tune into it!!!

B.

Sizzler...
As you posted above

"As for a contest between builders, I think that's been won, or
is in the process of being won based on the complaints from
other builders.

God bless America where if you sell higher priced goods that
don't perform as well as your competition's, you can get your
market share protected (or is that in France?)."

and a friendly response....

This builder has not complained...never once...nada!
I asked Drew several months back to be left out of this whole issue.....I told him then... they we Bigger, Better and far smarter...and we don't need to prove anything to anyone so please leave us out of what ever has been "won".....

From the First Daytona Race Mr Gessford Ran back in the early 50's up until today we've been working away building motors for about everything possible....those many long years of experience have produced one main thing...very reliable very complete engines that do what we say they will do and for a long time. As to secret things to do in a motor...well we all have what we think are good processes that produce the end results we're looking for....we don't want to produce 700HP FE motors But Have, we do produce 700+HP motors for other applications where it's required or logical.
For this dyno game our friend from Austrailia mentioned.....I'm busy with the shop and projects I have now....I have a long backlog of motors to build and just enjoy my nightly fix on Club Cobra....
So Thanks, But No Thanks!
George

When I see a post I don't agree with, I always make a point to look to see what kind a car or an engine the poster owns!

It can be very revealing.
Some of the most controversial posts have been posted by some who neither have a car nor an engine!!

Interesting. Don't you think?

TURK
George thanks for your post. You are always a class act!

Well put Turk.

Al

Turk - you've probably figured that I'm interested in the performance aspect of Cobras. Heck, anyone that'd fit such an ugly hood as mine to fit oversize supercharger tubing has to have some seriously wacked perspectives..... Anyway, to ease your concerns about my post, I've been trying to work out the Transport Department legalities of shipping a Kirkham over here (and you think SB100 is restrictive :eek: ).

I'm certainly not looking to ruin a perfectly good 427 Kirkham body by fitting my small block. I'll need something to fill the empty space. If someone can build more power RELIABLY for me for the same money, I'm definitely interested. I know of the high regard that all of my "potential" engine builders have within the Cobra (and wider Ford) community. As far as the Australian connection with this post, Bernie Knight was in the US recently and had fantastic things to say about George Anderson. Nothing sinister, no hidden agenda - if anything your public disagreements with Keith Craft's posting style and HP figures probably just elevated my interest in exactly what you get for your FE buying dollar. Thanks for bringing FE engines to the spotlight for me.

I thought when you saw a post you didn't agree with you got
all personal in your attack to deflect attention away from the
original point.

Point is, this issue is of MOST interest to someone who DOESN'T
have a motor yet. Why, because they're in the process of
evaluating who to build it. DUH.

Dan Semko has posted that his new Shelby is marking its territory
in its new home. I read that, and I just file it with other impressions
and comments I've heard or read about the various engine builders.

I also have considered the info that you (former moderator) and Computerworks (current moderator) both have had or are having, your engines built by Gessford. I'm in Chicago, politics rule. I recognize spin and coverup and even truth, when I hear it.

Sizzler, the day you buy an engine is the day we will never see. You are the gent with the original 289 right? Building what?

Sizzler,
I have the pleasure of having two cobras with two distinctly different engines built by two totally different builders. George build the 427 side oiler in the CSX which is meticulous, rock solid and trouble free. Eric Hinderberger at Performance Engineering built my stroked 351/418 for the SPF and it's a work of art. BOTH builders stand behind their products, have been responsive to questions and provided sound, "logical" guidance throughout the inceptions and builds. BOTH have impressive race histories with alumni that would boggle anyone's brain.
This issue started with Keith's remarks about the Gasholes, who have supported members, provided help when requested and monetarily supported nearly every charitable event without solicitation or accolades. I don't know Keith personally nor do I, or for that matter, any of the Gasholes, harbor any animosity. His attack may have been a momentary mental infarct but unwarranted and undeserved. If there's an issue with one Gashole member, address it and don't slam the entire, cohesive group because we actively support each other and collectively we will defend our friends.

I AM not trying to take on the whole g*hole clan.
Don't see where you might have gotten that impression.
And I notice that while you state the good service and response
you've gotten from your builders, you don't disagree with the
statement that your fresh motor is marking.

I am just taking in facts/opinions/impressions from posts I have
read here and on other sites. That's the whole point, and most
fun of building a car, I think. Once it's done, it's on to the next
one. For Bill, I don't know what your problem is, you always seem
to be attacking, for no apparent reason that I can discern. But for
your personal information, I've built one FE already, and it's time
to take what I learned with that one, and what I've learned about
engines in general, and what I wished I'd been able to accomplish
with the last one, and build another. I think this is the best of times,
the most fun, gathering information, gathering parts, discussing
the possibilities.

But to each his own I guess. You're happy with what you have, so
be happy.:)

Sizzler,

Send me your address, I have a few mirrors to send your way. Postage paid.

Hey Sizz,

I recommend a certain motor for your application, happy to discuss offline. Perfect match. Do you have any questions you would like to ask the members about reliability and customer service? Thought I would help you narrow your choices. Happy to help. How is tinseltown? Whoops, Chicago, forgot.

On the surface my remark toward you does seem rather abrupt and rude. It has more to do with deliberate attempts in the past by you to stir the pot and antagonize others.

As long as you're happy.... :rolleyes:

Sizz,

How can I help you find Thrasher BTW?

Sizzler,
I am capable of offending people in one of my posts. Anyone reading this thread will clearly see that you have mastered that to an art form.
I would venture to guess I have offended less people in 5000 posts than you have in your 261.

Sir, in that arena you got me beat.
If you would like to hear what else I have to say, try it off line.

Have a nice day.

Turk, don't feel bad. It may be a full time hobby on his behalf, and only a sideline for you. Practice makes perfect :LOL: .