Shelby Aluminum

[Jamo]

Nope...per your choice when you signed up. Only the Administrator can access it. Course, you can e-mail me if you wish.

[steelcomp]

I'll do that. No need robbing this thread any further...I apologise for that. It wasn't my intention, just sort of ended up going that way. I still say KC is inflating their numbers. I'm VERY familiar with the 600 to 700 hp range engine requirements. I've been doing a lot of boat race motors lately, and have a 467" BBC in my boat that probably isn't quite 700 hp, and I can't tell you how much work and $ went in to that motor. It has 12.4:1, a very long winded flat tappet solid, extensive head work, and (2) 800 Holleys on a tunnel ram. It idles at about 1600, and makes about 685-690 at around 6500+. On race gas. I'll tell ya. I wouldn't want to be in any but one or two Cobra's with that motor! The guys that drove those things in the 60's were no less than hangin' on for dear life, and had cojones the size of grapefruit! They were psycho!
Wasn't it grand!!!

[Jamo]

Yup, some of us know some of those guys. Dick Smith ("198")lives here and I have the pleasure of running into him at our engine builder's place.

[RICK LAKE]

steelcomp Where is this 800 BBC cobra at? This is not a comp car like the guys that came to R&G 3 years ago. Have not seen or heard of any stock body cobras running 9's on all motors yet. He running a jag rear( stock)? Slicks? The cobra community is well informed thanks to the computor age. ERA has built a 4 link setup for the outer hub assembly. Shocks or solid arm is choice. Your boat motor is built for a narrow hp range. Arntz made a top of the line car 20 years ago, But I think the ERA was sitting right next to you. JBL has picked the ball up insuspension and gone on. Has far as the cobra racer of the 60's they where real drivers, not handling so what, no brakes who cares, got to win damn straight. They all should be in the racing hall of fame. Mechanic too. I would like to hear more of your storys sometime, I will even pay for the phone bill. Rick Lake

[BMK]

Rick



I'm watching you and so is ( I bet ) George A.



Cheers

Bernie

[RICK LAKE]

Bernie Knight Bernie ,Where have you been. Your missing all the fun. This is like the great fish story, can't wait to see the ending. Moby Dick hires the Saprano's to wack them all. Rick Lake Ps hows the car doing, George is on vacation with the wife and dog, boy he loves that dog He's getting the rest he needs.

[misfit41]

Muscle Car Enthusiast magazine dynoed a bone stock 1964 low riser last month to 448 hp and 505 lbs of torque,with the stock cast hipo manifolds.
Hot Rod Mag said the 427 was the highest hp to engine weight engine ever produced,and every one knows that stock stuff to stock stuff,cubic inch per cubic inch, an old fe will make more power than anything,Ralph Moody said the 427 was as reliable as a small block chevy when properly tuned and assembled,SO,when now we can get a block that is capable of 500 or more cubic inches,i dont see why 700 HP on pump gas is so hard to conceive,unless of course your talking to one of many who have no real fe experience and still think a 427 is a punched out 390.
I dont know KC,and the numbers are monsturous,but I see his name in the winning end of the drag race world often,so until I decide to give him some of my hard earned money,or until someone whom has done so speaks up to the negative,I think he deserves the benefit of doubt. Tk

[FeWedge]

For all the backbiting that has been going on in this thread.
Is there any person who has questioned KC hp numbers actually
seen or know any one personal that has one of his motors?

Rob

[392cobra]

Rob,

I SERIOUSLY doubt it.

[BANDIT 1]

MISFIT41:

You must be talking about 30 year old quotes, because none of that has been true in 30 years. If they were talking about a FE 427 engine than the only one that fit's any of what you are saying is the 427 SOHC engine.

I am like others here, I have nothing against the FE engines. My problem is fantasy is fantasy, period.

NONE of my comments are aimed at the Kieth Craft debate going on...I have no opinion either way as far as that is concerned.

[misfit41]

Your Right Bandit,I am quoting 60's numbers,,but I thought thats where we all are trying to live,,lol
I'm not trying to start the same old argument,but it was the low or med riser they spoke of,cant remember which,although I have the artical somewhere,I was also mostly talking torque numbers,where the fe was king,,but your right,none of those stand up to todays high tech ,light weight ,efi systems,hp to weight that is.
I just hate the KC/FE bashing from someone who apparently dosent have experience with either.
I still belive it,any engine from 72 back,including 429 scj,BBC on the shelf parts,carb only,FE is King,,,the hemi is there numbers wise,but it is so heavy,and that one truely is a grenade,thats what blows my mind,I still contend a well built fe is very dependable,but again,,not trying to start an argument here,,I like them all,but Fe's make me HOT,,,Tk

[RICK LAKE]

misfit41 Tim In the mid 60's the FE was king but late 60's You have the ZL1 motor, Buick stage 1 or 2 motor, Hemi was maken good numbers with the best head ever designed. SOHC was at the top, but while having an FE block theheads where another whole ball game, even the tunnel port where not that close. Pont had the ram air 4-5 motors. I turned wrenches on a hemi for 3 years and never blew up. It got new bearings every year and was driven on the street also. 10.68 with 4.56 gears and 28" slicks, all motor. trick trans. Hemi has the same bottom end as the FE, so someone was thinking smart. That ZL1 was the king when it came out, power, light wieght, strong motor. I am not a chevy fan but the fastest cars in SS/AA are hemis and 1 COPO camareo. Just the facts. Rick Lake

[BANDIT 1]

The king in the late 1960's was the 427 SOHC engine, nothing could touch it in Top Fuel, Funny Car or any other racing venue it was in up until it was outlawed.So as far as that goes, the FE 427 SOHC engine was the greatest 1960' engine ever built.

However it might be debated, if Ford had put them in enough passenger vehicles I believe that the 427 SOHC engine would be the engine to beat till this day and we all would be talking about how Chrysler had a HEMI engine way back in the old days...

[steelcomp]

Hey misfit,

How many FE's have you built in the 700 hp range? And I don't mean put together parts that someone else machined or you bought because someone else said they were the hot ticket. I mean did your own home work, told your machinist what clearances you wanted and why, or for that matter, did your own machining, measure your own clearances, choose your own cam specs, did your own porting, cc'd your own piston domes, figured a true measured compression ratio, did your own valve job, clearanced your own block, degreed your own cam, checked your own v/p clearance, etc. and then when you were all done, know enough about what you did to know what changes to make. How do you check for proper rocker geometry? Why is stroke to rod length ratio so important? How do you determain what rod bolts to use? How do you know if your heads flow too much, or did you know that they can? Should I go on?

Just curious.

By the way, a 427 IS a punched out 390.

[steelcomp]

God almighty, I wish you could hear yourselves. Next thing you're going to say is that the buggy whip is still a "got to have".
The SOHC motr didn't make it simply because it ouldn't hack it. First, it damn near takes two guys to degree the cams on one, second, they were very tempermental and hyper sensative to cam timing, and third, they were terribly un reliable. That 6' of timing chain could, and did let go at any time. They were great in drag racing, once you got 'em running right...everything'd a grenade there...pull the pin and hope for the best! But indurance? Forget it.
The FE used to be king, that is true, but get over it! It hasn't been for a LONG time, and is old technology, no matter how you re machine it or what color you anodise it!
What works best, lasts. It's simple. It's as much survival of the fittest in our material world as it is in the wild.
If only Ford had...If only Chrysler had...If grandma had balls she'd be grampa. The FE is an outdated, old school platform, that, no matter how big you make one, will always be just that. The ONLY way those motors are making any near the horse power that is being claimed is because of more cubes. Maybe a little better cam technology, maybe a little better head, but not enough to bring 'em out of the dark ages.
I am a tried and true, blue in my veins, die hard Ford lover. I defend the blue oval to rediculousness. My first car was a 69 Ranchero with a factory installed 428 SCJ with an H servo'd C6 and a 3.89 limited slip. With GoodYear Bluestreaks, that car ran 11's with factory exhaust. I've been doing this since before I was old enough to drive, and I know this...you guys are goofy! Now to be loyal to an era (not E.R.A.) is cool. The Cobra is, and will always be timeless. There will never be another car that will have the impact on the motorsports world than it has, and frankly, always will have. It will forever be a benchmark that modern performance will be compared to, but the facts are the facts. If it was a better car, if it was a safer car, if it wasn't so hard to drive in it's 427 (428, mostly) trim, or wasn't the true piece of rattleing fire ball that it was, someone would have long ago, picked up on the platform and mass (I mean MASS) produced it. So many millions of dollars have been spent by those with that vision. I know for a fact that Steve Arntz went to ford with a version of his car that met the complete requirement for DOT crash and impact testing, proposing a production run. There's companies out there combined that haven't thrown as much money or dedication into trying to make the Cobra practical, as he. It didn't fly. For various reasons, but it didn't. And the classic FE sits right between it's front fenders...as a metaphor.

[steelcomp]

sorry for the typos...fat fingers.

Go ahead...you can have that one.

[sgianino]

Im a HAPPY Keith Craft customer !! Motor now has 1000 miles on it.Would i do it again ?? In a second but with webbers

[steelcomp]

Sam Gianino?

[misfit41]

UMMM,
Steelcomp,,I have to admit I was all set up to really dislike you,,your new here,,just a few days actually,,and you find fun in digging at what many of us love,,deeply actually,but for some strange reason your last thread,the one where you were replying to yourself,{I understand that,sometimes I am just about to burst I wanna say something so badly}I started to like you a bit,,just a bit,maybe because I agree with a lot of what you said.
I have never built a 700 hp engine,the one I have now made 622 at 6600 , I was there to see,and hear that,honestly though,when timed so it starts,and jetted so it dosent burn your eyes,it is closer to 575,but with 430 cubes and pump gas,I can live with that.
The engine I am starting now should hit between 650 and 700,but I am shooting for 650 lbs of torque,the hp number can fall where it may,I dont care.
Maybe I just love em,it could be the sound,I am not ALL that old,but I still remember being at salem motor speedway,when maybe 15 percent of the field was 427's,the rest mixed between BBC and a chrysler or two ,and a few very slow 429's,it was sort of funny,but when the fe's passed the covered area of the stands,everyones hands went over their ears,as the ad says,,"Priceless" .
I have read all the numbers,and spent more than I can admit on old car mags,to go along with all the new,the fe heads seem to flow equal to{or better than} anything I have seen,{ever study a yates sbf head ?DUH}barring maybe hemi's,which were wonderful,although someone said the bottom ends were like an fe,I assume however they never weighed a rod and piston,weight of the rotating assembly was the death of the hemi,anyway,,cube for cube,,old tech versus old tech,oh what ta hell,forget old tech,just v-8 s cube for cube,and no funny stuff,,power adders ,etc,and forget the price,,money dosent mean anything,,whats better ? if any one could have anything they wanted ,,it's hard to believe the top choice wouldnt be an alloy shelby,,what ?,500 or so cubes and maybe 640 hp ? wow,,I can hear it now,,I had a wicked 455 olds ,,1970,made big noise and was good for picking up girls,,but not so much on guts,the pontiac sd's were hot too,and My uncle still races stage ones,they scream,but with all things equal,,neither is even close to the torque and flexibility of an fe,, .
All in all,,everything had its time,I shudder to think,as you say "what if" ford had continued a racing program,what if 427's were actually a production street car engine,but we will never know,,I know I am going to catch hell for this,,but please,,,read my post,and show me facts,prove me wrong and I will stand corrected,,sweet dreams,,Tim

[dynoroom]

Steelcomp, WOW! You've said some things I've been waiting to for some time. I'm glad i'm not just losing it. I mean I'm sure I still hold 7 or so records at the Bonneville Salt flats where it does take HP to go fast.
Mike LeFevers Mitech Racing Engines