427 SOHC questions...

[BlownSOHC]

Yet again I have an ever curious list of questions I'm wondering if someone can answer. First and foremost, with the development work being done on pushrod FE heads is their any real point besides bragging rights to even consider a SOHC? Do they have some untapped power advantage that is worth looking into? How come they are manufactured today buy niche builders? Why doesn't someone like Keith Craft do some serious port and cam development with one? How about when I see one on EBAY either as just an engine or installed in something, and they claim "700hp SOHC", or "800hp ULTIMATE SOHC". How realistic are these figures? I want to see some genuine arguments for/against the SOHC, some opinions, etc. Thanks !!!

[Keithc8]

The biggest problem with these engines is there are not a lot of aftermarket parts for them. No one has a real cost effective cylinder head available or good rocker system with out spending a chunk of change. Most people want 20,000.00 for an old engine if not more. Most people do not want to spend 30,000.00 to 40,000.00 on an engine either. You can also build a regular 800HP FE these days for 25,000.00 that has all of the latest trickest parts available. I think it is more about the uniqueness of the engine than anything. Just my two cents worth, Keith

[RICK LAKE]

Blown SOHC Your wish is coming true. All the important parts are starting to be manufactored in the next 2-3 months. Go to FE forum and read Some of the SOHC threads. Mike Jackson just pasted away but the bussiness is going on. RWJ, Dave Shoe and other have helped bring this motor back to life. With 4 different block makers and 3 working on updated heads for better flow it will not be long. I have but a list together of builder of parts, if you need something send me a note. Ps. Sohc heads only flow 340 cfm in stock form. 616 hp is a nice number to start with. Rick Lake

[marcocsx3121]

The SOHC Ford has a tremendous amount of potential, but it requires cultivation. I'm sceptical about the stock engine's quoted 616 HP. Back when CSX 3022 was owned by Bruce Waller, it was running an out-of-the-crate cammer, and my Cobra with a strong 427 Medium Riser was noticeably quicker. On the other hand, Carter Gette's blueprinted, etc. cammer-powered Cobra was a monster.

[SFfiredog]

I've built 2 cammers and they are awsome engines. The wive's tales about unreliability, like timing chain issues are just that, BS.
The two major drawbacks (besides price) to cammers are:

Weight.
The vast majority of cammers have cast iron heads. There were aluminum heads cast but they are extremely rare (expensive) to find in usable condition these days. That being said, a fully dressed cammer can weigh close to 750 lbs, maybe more. As Keith stated, you can build an all aluminum FE with the same HP for less price, and it will weigh close to 300 lbs LESS.

Size.
The only Ford cars that a cammer will fit in without major modification is a full size Galaxie/Maurader or a 69/70 Boss 429 Mustang, which happens to be where you see most cammers residing.

--Mike

[Sizzler]

A big problem with cammers, other than the weight issues, and size, is the combustion chamber. The cammer was designed to used specially shaped pistons (look like closed fists) within its true hemi chamber to achieve 12.5:1 compression (and more).

Not street-friendly, not pump gas friendly, not emissions-friendly.

I was kinda hoping that Ford's new Hurricane engine was designed by some engineers who had a little tradition/skunkwork/slyfox in their veins...engineers who may have speced the new Hurricane bore spacing to match (or be very close) to the old FE's spacing, maybe even allow use of the new Hurricane heads (3V?) on an old FE block maybe (with custom intake etc.). I don't know if there are any hotrodders left at Ford anymore though, or any with imagination or initiative.

Another issue with cammers is the cams themselves: They are not ground 'normally', and finding someone who can custom-grind the pattern is very limited today.

Regardless of all the problems and issues though, it's still the most awesome engine Ford ever delivered.

[marcocsx3121]

I did not realize that aluminum cammer heads were rare items. Gette's cammer had 'em, which may have been part of the performance difference between his Cobra and CSX 3022. They also helped cool the thing. That was one of the only Cobras that I've seen that could handle extended idling on an 80 degree-plus day.

[bmalone]

The SOHC project initially had two specific goals. One to utilize as many components as prctical from the 427 wedge motor, and two to develop enough additional HP beyond the wedge motor to make undertaking the project practical--without significant extra cost and re-tooling.

Thus, the run of crate motors planned to use iron heads. Aluminum heads were made later for specific purposes and yes, they are much rarer. I have heard the breakdown is 70/30.

Aftermarket pistons are available that bring compression down to a 11.0:1 range. That is where my motor is at. I will soon find out if that is accurate and how it behaves on the street. I do plan to use race gas.

More interesting tidbits: Series 1 and Series 2 motors. Series 1 had the exhaust valve offset from centerline and the spark plug was roughly in the center of the chamber. Series 1 had single 4 intake, which at sustained high rpm produced lean condition to center four cylinders, where the bend of the runners was 90 degrees. Also had non-adjustable rocker arms.

Series 2 brought the exhaust valve to horizontal centerline and plug was moved more to the intake side of the chamber. 2x4 became the standard intake--runners were shorter with very little bends and this produced a ton of HP. Adjustable rockers.

[RICK LAKE]

SFfiredog Now that there are 4 alum blocks on the market and all of the parts are being make for this motor, it may be a dead heat for the total price of a 427MR,427HR,427TP against a cammer. When the Alum heads come out the only thing will be how much CFM from them. I figure 400+ without any problem. Wieght differents will be 50lbs with both motors all Alum. You have to do alot more work to get 650 hp from any one of these engines than a cammer. The head width depending on the cobra is the only problem. ERA has to modifly the foot boxes to fit this bear. I am think of converting over my first motor to cammer. I will let you know what the final price is when done and hp and tork readings. I have called a couple of times, I only get the answer machine, Is there a good time to call? Thanks Rick Lake

[SFfiredog]

Rick,
As much as I would hope you could build a cammer or a wedge for a comparable price, it ain't gonna happen.
There are just too many extra parts and machining steps required to build a cammer.
For example:
There are left and right heads, meaning two different casting patterns and machine set ups.
Not only do the heads need to be machined for valve guides and seats, the need to have cam and rocker towers and be machined for cam bearings.
The individual parts list, compared to a wedge, is staggering.
Here is a list of all the parts I can think of, off the top of my head:
L and R cylinder heads with cam and rocker towers.
2 valve covers
8 spark plug sealing tubes and O-rings
L and R camshafts
2 sets cylinder head cam bearings
1 set block cam bearings (different than wedge)
8 exhaust rocker/followers
8 intake rocker/followers
4 rocker/follower shafts
2 cam sprockets
1 stub cam
1 crank gear
1 stub cam timing chain
1 cam drive timing chain
1 cam chain idler sprocket (LS)
1 cam tensioner and sprocket assembly (RS)
3 nylon cam chain guide assemblies
1 fuel pump eccentric
1 inner timing cover (steel)
1 outer timing cover (aluminum)
1 fuel pump (different than wedge)
1 water pump (different than wedge)
1 intake manifold
1 water neck/ thermostat housing
1 complete gasket set (only the oil pan gsk is the same as a wedge)
1 set spark plug wires (different than wedge)
1 timing cover pointer (different than wedge)

This is just a basic list not counting all the different fasteners, head studs, cam lock plates, etc. that would be required to finish assemble the engine.

Compare this list to what parts it would take to build a wedge.

My best guess is that even if all the components to build an all aluminum cammer are produced in sufficient quantities to be marketable it would still cost $5000 more than a comparable all aluminum wedge.
And then to make it fit in pratically anything... get out the sawzall and torch...
--Mike

[RICK LAKE]

SFfiredog Mike the Jackson boys have all the odd ball parts you are talking about. For the block cam bearing, they tap and plug the holes in the block and modifly the oiling system. Back plate, front plate, gears, chains, tensioners, chain guides, all avaliable. I know about the heads, they come with the bearings. Billet cams also. The intake may be the only hard part to get depending on 4 barrel, 2 4 barrels, or webers. I know where a set of valve covers are, ingood shape. Have to find out if they are the low clearance or high clearance for the valve train. Pointer you can make yourself. What's the height differents between a hemi and a sohc. I know that the sohc has longer valves. Timing covers I have seen at swap meets. Everything maynot be brand new but close enough. Tell me when you are going to be around, we'll talk. Rick Lake Ps this is why I have a list of parts people and what they sell. Builder also, mostly guys in there 60's with machine knowledge. Like yourself, your in the book