ye olde oil leak

double ugly · #1 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 12:35 PM

I have done everything short of removing the tranny to check the galley plugs on the back of my 428 PI with 2500 miles. After sitting overnight when the oil temp has gotten to 80C I have a spot on the floor the size of two half dollars. It is no small chore since the tranny has to come out the top which requires a lot of upholstery removal. I installed a new pan, and had the rear main replaced. The leak is coming from the front of the bell housing. The valve covers are dry as is the back of the intake manifold. How common is it for a galley plug to leak? Any ideas?
Thanks, John

427SnakeSC · #2 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 12:44 PM

That's not an oil leak! Your car is marking its territory!

Naumoff · #3 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 03:39 PM

I am chasing the same leak.
Do not overlook the valve covers even if they feel dry.
They could be running down the gasket joint where the head and the intake come together.
I pulled one of my valve covers replaced the gasket a put high temp sealer on both sides of the gasket and reduced the oil leak. Back of the heads was dry.
I need to do the other side and see if I can reduce it to a bead hanging off the bellhousing and I will be happy.

Let the sealer dry overnight before you fire the engine.

hope this helps

bnewell · #4 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 03:53 PM

I thought they all leaked to some degree??

double ugly · #5 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 04:20 PM

Most do leak, I'm told, but mine is excessive. If the valve covers leak wouldn't the side of the block be wet? Mine seems dry. With the amount of oil I'm finding I would expect to see/feel some oil on the sides or back of the block. I will probably take it to B and R here in Phoenix and have them put some chemical in the oil and use the black light. To not waste their time and my $ I will have to remove seats, pull carpet back, remove shift linkage and tunnel for them to get at the transmission to pull it out the top. There is something to be said for ERA in that their cars are much easier to work on. HELP
John

lineslinger · #6 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 04:22 PM

Do you know whether the galley plugs are threaded or pressed in? Pressed in plugs are notorious for leaking and the threaded plugs..., unless properly sealed upon installation will also "seep" once the motor has been warmed up and the oiling system pressurised with hot oil.
I have seen teflon tape used as a thread sealer and fail once things heat up and are pressurised.

slithering · #7 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 06:29 PM

du,

Have you tried some oil dye and an infrared to trace the leak? Worked great for me.

Chris

double ugly · #8 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 08:20 PM

When I get it to B and R here that's what we're planning. Unfortunately, to be able to see the galley plugs the tranny has to come out. I have no idea wheither the plugs are screw in or press fit.
John

Mike Bartlett · #9 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 08:27 PM

du,
I am going through a similar problem right now as well as water in my oil. I thought my valve covers were leaking which they were a bit but I believe most of my leak was the head gasket? Still trying to figure my problem out but you may want to crawl under the car and look for oil where the head meets the block. Also if your leak is at the part of the bellhousing where it meets the block I wouldn't think it would not be tranny related? I have also heard that even though your rear main seal was replaced it may still be leaking.

Good luck, that dye thing may a good idea. I have heard good things about that method.

Mike

DonC · #10 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 10:46 PM

Don"t dismiss the back of the intake manifold where it mates to the block. Had a leak in mine that appeared to be coming from the bell housing so I suspected the rear main.
After tearing everything apart and removing the bell housing, clutch, transmission and flywheel found the rear main seal area dry. Ended up putting the fly wheel, bell housing and starter back on and using trace dye in the oil. After running the engine for about 15 minutes got another couple of drops of oil on the bottom of the bell housing but still couldn't see where it was coming from. Removed the starter, bell housing and flywheel again and, when I pulled the rear engine plate finally noticed that there was a trace of oil coming from the rear of the intake manifold.
What surprised me was that the oil seep was so small it hardly showed up at the rear of the manifold but it was MIGRATING ALONG THE JOINT BETWEEN THE BACKING PLATE and the block all the way around until it got to the bottom of the bell housing and then it would drip off.
DonC

Carnut427 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-08-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by double ugly

...There is something to be said for ERA in that their cars are much easier to work on...
John

The trans comes out the same way in ERAs.

Dan

Naumoff · #12 (**permalink**) 10-09-2006, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonC

Don"t dismiss the back of the intake manifold where it mates to the block. Had a leak in mine that appeared to be coming from the bell housing so I suspected the rear main.
After tearing everything apart and removing the bell housing, clutch, transmission and flywheel found the rear main seal area dry. Ended up putting the fly wheel, bell housing and starter back on and using trace dye in the oil. After running the engine for about 15 minutes got another couple of drops of oil on the bottom of the bell housing but still couldn't see where it was coming from. Removed the starter, bell housing and flywheel again and, when I pulled the rear engine plate finally noticed that there was a trace of oil coming from the rear of the intake manifold.
What surprised me was that the oil seep was so small it hardly showed up at the rear of the manifold but it was MIGRATING ALONG THE JOINT BETWEEN THE BACKING PLATE and the block all the way around until it got to the bottom of the bell housing and then it would drip off.
DonC

This is what makes tracing down a leak a real pain. I tried the dies but the oil is all over the place following the seems. Mine only leaks after the car has beem driven. Back of the manifolld and valve covers are probably my problem.
I don't remember my 427 in my Galaxie leaking oil.

double ugly · #13 (**permalink**) 10-09-2006, 07:14 AM

Here's my plan. I'm taking it in and they'll put the additive in the oil, run the engine for a few munutes, (oil still at 80C) let it cool, drop the pan (if nothing shows up around the engine block) and check the rear main. If thats good I'll remove the interior and have them yank the tranny etc to look at the galley plugs. Good plan????? Thanks for all the help.
John

Naumoff · #14 (**permalink**) 10-09-2006, 03:30 PM

Sounds good to me. Good luck and let us know what it is.

I am glad I can pull my trans from under the car.

double ugly · #15 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 11:31 AM

Well, I just drove home from B and R. They replaced the rear main seal after the black light test revealed that the only leak was coming from the bell housing area. Granted there could be plenty of oil trapped in the bell housing if the old seal was bad. I don't have a good feeling about it though as the puddle under the car is the same as before. I'll give it a couple more runs and if the puddle doesn't get alot smaller I'll bite the bullet and remove interior so they can get the tranny out and start pulling the back of the engine off to check the galley plugs. This really sucks.
John

Eljaro · #16 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 12:25 PM

After replacing the oilpan seal, the real main seal, the intake manifold seal and what other seals you can think of many times over , I have given up on the leaks and will live with them till I die.
Just put a large pan under the Cobra where I park it to take the oil drip and that is it. Some cleaning of the bottom every once in a while and all is weel oiled un der the car, so no rusting to worry about..
A Cobra is a beast and marks its territory, right!

slithering · #17 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 07:05 PM

du,

These things happen, just part of owning a race car. Don't beat yourself up. The first engine I put in my car, had a hole in the seat of the distributor housing! That makes it a. . .boat anchor!

This will be a story you tell, soon.

Chris

vettestr · #18 (**permalink**) 10-12-2006, 10:13 PM

Hey Double,
I have been watching the leak saga. Did the black light reveal it was engine oil you are leaking? I did read it came from bellhousing area but was not sure if leak contained the dye or not?
Guess it all comes down to the same drill if tranny lube or hyd. fluid from the clutch slave. Jeff C

Naumoff · #19 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 05:03 AM

DU,
Do you have a blowproof bellhousing?
If so Drill a drain hole in the bottom of it to keep any oil from puddling in it.
1/4 or 3/8" is fine. The problem with oil is it has a mind of its own and will follow the path along seams and ridges.
I am a plumber and can tell you some stories about a leak showing up 30' or more from the source.

If you have a leak coming from your bellhousing it is probably not your engine and is more likely your trans.
Taste the fluid. Gear fluid taste like it smells, BAD. Oil is not bad. Brake fluid taste like it is melting your tongue out of your head. Ask me how I know.

Does it happen only after you drive for some distance?
Can you start the car up, move it out of the garage, let it warm up and run for a few , pull it back in the garage and still have a puddle of oil under the car?

If it still leaks then it could be the oil galley plugs but if it does not I would look at the intake and valvecovers.

Did I mention I hate oil leaking out of my car?

double ugly · #20 (**permalink**) 10-13-2006, 07:00 AM

I only have a leak when I get the oil temp up. I can drive 10 miles before the oil temp registers. The dye and black light revealed an oil leak coming from the front of the bellhousing.



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