Two Engine failures from Southern Automotive

[Jamo]

cdnus

Snark here...

Again...step back and read. The builder response notes that he had the motor for 11 months before the problem was reported to them, and substantiates that it had been installed for quite some time during those 11 months based upon the date of the installation of that motor since the invoice had been sent to them. Obviously, that does indeed raise an issue of what was happening with that motor for that extended period...flat tappets should be adjusted soon after a run-in period, no?

Thus, it comes down to credibility. Donald, if he indeed waited that long to contact them for that extended period, put that question into issue by his own actions of waiting. Now, that might be overcome by some external direct evidence or by testimony based upon first-hand observation...

...but it sure as hell ain't gonna be overcome by some third party commentator's "assumptions" which are based on nothing more than a rather skimpy record thrown up on the internet.

Thus, we don't know, based upon the record presented, whether the valve train was loose before it went into the car, or whether they loosened up after a period of time. Not calling either party untruthful...we just don't know.

Now...all of that is based on reading and some basic comprehension skills of direct comments by the two parties involved, instead of hitchiking on another third party commentator's (Rick Lake's...nothing personal, just the facts, Rick) post, not unlike the childhood game/lesson some kindergarten teachers had their youthful charges engage in when they would whisper a "secret" into one child's ear and have it passed around the classroom in like fashion, and then have the entire class experience en masse how different the secret is once it has traveled around the room. That lesson obviously teaches us the danger of hearsay and the passage of it from one to another. Had you instead based your comments on the party's posts, or at least not played hooky from kindergarten that day, I would not be taking the time to slow down the rotation of the earth so you could stay on for another rotation or two.

/s/Snark

P.S. I do appreciate and applaud your rather relevant inquiry to the other party.

[Jamo]

Ernie...I knew the tradewinds would blow you in the right direction sooner or later.

[kris-kincaid]

Jamo, you should be billing for this. Ernie, whats your American Express number?

[FatBoy]

I don't have too much experience of this industry, but I would be interested to know how many other engine builders would have even contemplated any kind of "warranty" claim after 11 months, regardless of what the customer may have claimed.
If the 2nd engine was as badly built as DC claims, why didn't he raise that issue with SA as soon as the problem became apparent when it would have been very easy to provide credible evidence, I know I would have done?

Paul

[olblu66]

Bill and Susan ( SOUTHERN AUTO.) are top shelf people. They take great pride in the bussiness and workman ship. They really go way out of ther way to please there customers. I'm 1st hand experence with them. They did all repares,11 months after i got my engine. Then even droped the car off at my front door. They kept in touch by phone to see how things were going with there engine. I really trust them and would buy again from them. PAT

[TButtrick]

Originally Posted by cdnus

Maybe I am missing something here, if I am I will apologize in advance.

Sorry---But the failed to adjust the valves explanation just doesn't wash.
Why would anybody pay big bucks to have a engine built,dynoed & proven & then expect the builder to un-adjust (word?) the valves.
I hazzard to say that very few here that have purchased a proven "crate" engine from a respectable builder has or would expect to have to.

J.M.O.
Craig

Why would anybody pay big bucks to have a engine built,dynoed & proven & NOT follow the builders instructions and comply with known valve maintenance on a flat-tappet engine?

[emberglo66]

time for this thread to END

[lineslinger]

Originally Posted by emberglo66

time for this thread to END

Why? It may be getting a little long winded but we are still learning some facts about the accusations made. There are lots of other ones you can read. If this thread had ended when readers first started calling for its termination we may have missed out on the response from Southern Automotive. Kudos to the moderators for letting it play itself through. If you are tired of following this one stop doing so, or go watch DNC re-runs.

[Bill Bess]

It seems to me that anybody that has half a wit about mechanics and engines would naturally re-adjust the valves after the initial start up and run in. The final tune-up..carb, timing and valve adjustments are normal things you do and re-due after a few miles and then at scheduled periods. 11 months and probably numerous thrashings on the motor could be part of the situation that was not mention?
Defective gaskets, leaky soft plugs and the like are all things that can pop up in any build, and although shouldn't happen they do and can show up after the initial test run at the factory.

Donald the truth will set you free!

Hey it's just a dumb Ford, Best Regards, Bill

[turnpike boy]

...Mr. Campbell......Mr. Donald Campbell!

Would you still be here? Any possibility of a pertinent response to counterpoint?

Not, obviously, required - but might add some dimension to the issue not heretofore uncovered.

At your leisure, of course.

[lpfomoco1]

You know, there are at least a dozen things that a customer can do to and engine once it is recieved, either through ignorance or carelessness that can damage a perfectly good engine. Very rarely will a customer admit to any wrong doing. The engine builder always is to blame. Not knowing how to adjust valves is one of the main causes of valve train problems in an FE engine. How many times has a perfectly good engine been destroyed by using plumbing fitting and lines that were to small or the wrong type?

[McD00]

Boy am I with Jamo on this one. Heck, Everyone knows those old FE's require non stop maintenance. Heck I used to work on mine more than I drove it.
Looks like nothing more to see here let just move along now.

McVette

[blykins]

I wish I could just leave a face, but I can't because it's not enough characters.

So....

[cdnus]

RE: the 2nd. motor,

This motor started and we ran it for a couple of hours realizing that it just did not run right and it leaked oil like crazy. We decided to dyno at Meridian Performance in Bellingham and loaded the car into the trailer. These guy's were great. We were doing our first run -up on the dyno when the rocker assembly came apart. We opened up both valve covers and the rockers were not even finger tight (his words)

What is so hard to understand?????
He did not get to drive the car---it went by TRAILER to the shop & then came apart.
I would expect that after a engine is dynoed & proven I would be able to run it much longer than this before requiring a valve adjustment.
Also it's not like he was doing this over a ditch in the backyard himself.
He went to great lengths to assure it was done correctly by having qualified experienced people oversee the start up both times.
As for the time factor-11 months,
Everyone who had their motors sitting in the garage or chassis for months, even years before they actually got their cars on the road please stand up.

Note:
All statements & conclusions are based on the fact that both partys are telling the truth as they see it, NOT on the bases of one of them is lying.

Craig

[Jamo]

I'm getting tired...

The builder got an invoice showing that the engine had been in the car for 8 months before they were told of the problem. If you are accepting statements from each as if they are true...you (again) should take the time to read everything so you know what the facts (as we have been presented them) are. Thus...it cannot be "assumed" that the engine was not run during that period.

By waiting...the owner created that issue. It certainly was not something he decided to share with us during his first few posts on this site (a valid consideration given his communications to the builder), which further raises some crediblity issues which need to be addressed.

Again...we don't really know who's right or wrong here, but it is certainly not a slam dunk as our new member laid it out to be.

No offense cdnus, but you're not pleading the owner's case very well. It would be nice if he would post and provide some responses since he brought this thing to us in the first place, but that's for him to decide.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by turnpike boy

...Mr. Campbell......Mr. Donald Campbell!

Would you still be here? Any possibility of a pertinent response to counterpoint?

Not, obviously, required - but might add some dimension to the issue not heretofore uncovered.

At your leisure, of course.

Hopefully, there are discussions in the background that are taking place and a resolution to this matter iwll be found. I'm hoping Mr. Campbell just didn't perform a "hit and run" and now has left the scene.

I thought Mr. Campbell sent an email or letter to SA in July 2008 that said everything was great and that he looked forward to many happy years with his engine. Then 4 weeks later, this post.

[Excaliber]

This is a good thread beyond pointing fingers. It reaffirms that no matter WHO your builder is sometimes 'parts go bad', Fel Pro gasket is one example here. We've seen reports of parts failures of varying degrees to just about every manufacturer out there. The second thing is, right or wrong, the owner/installer has to do his part when it comes to maintenance.

If your builder is 'just down the road' (Boghosian who built Jamo's motor as an example) you stay in close touch and don't mess with "his" engine. If your at a distance, as most of us are, the ball is in our court. Stay close to your installer/mechanic or do the service yourself, but you GOT to stay on top of it. Perhaps document the mileage, date and service done to 'CYA'. Get back to the builder in a timely fashion is there if a problem. No matter who built it...

[cdnus]

Thanks Jamo,
Much nicer, not really trying to plead the owners case. Just trying to poke & prod to get to the real answer---if there is one.

Craig

[CHANMADD]

I feel for both parties, But to my mind the following statement should negate any warranties that the engine supplier originally gave.
(This replacement motor arrived incomplete and was in such poor condition and was so poorly built that we stripped it to find undamaged parts from the two motors to try to create one that looked something like a $14,000.00 motor.)
They were however good enough to supply the parts neccessary to make the motor run.
The installation mechanic has some big b*lls to blame the engine supplier for not having the distributor in correctly.Who installed that 180 degree off dizzy ??
It is very difficult I think for an enginne supplier to warranty the motor when firstly it is commissioned by someone else who may or may not be the best installation tech!!
Having the dizzy 180 "out" is going to cause the motor to backfire profusely and depending on how long it took the installer to figure out that he had put the dizzy in wrong would contribute to damaging the motor!
Just my opinion
John.

[Donald Campbell]

I think a few additional statements of clarification will help here. To date, August 28,2008, my cobra has has less than 100 miles on it, TOTAL, for several reasons.(this includes both SA motors) After the 1st engine failed it took several months to get the first motor out, stripped and parts transferred to the replacement motor and reinstallation. I was travelling with my family for most of August 2007 and I travel extensively for my business in the fall and am away from home for most of Sept, Oct and part of Nov. I do not know how many of you drive your cars in the rain, but I do not! Last year it started raining Labor Day 2007 and stopped raining here in May 2008. It just started raining again by the way!

In addition, the replacement motor was in such poor shape and required sooo much work that I frankly gave up on SA and the car. Yes, the first failed motor was at my garage for a long time, but this was not a simple pull the motor and reinstall the replacement. It took time, and since my "experience" with SA was already going downhill fast, I needed to make sure the replacement motor ran. It did, albeit not well, and the car sat in the garage and out of the rain until late April / May 2008. The weather was bad, I did not trust the replacement motor, and no, I did not share any of this with SA because I got little help before and did not want to deal with the frustration.

In order to gain some confidence in the car and motor and in an effort to make it run the way it should have two years ago, AutoStrada suggested that we trailer the car, with a handfull of engine hours to Meridian Performance for a dyno, it broke again on the dyno and the rest you know!

I had not talked with SA, and had no intention of doing so ever again, until the replacement motor with ridiculously low miles failed on the dyno - then I was pissed!

I did send the invoice to SA with expectaions of full reimbursement. All charges were the result of the engine failures, except the dyno which frankly was not something that we should have had to perform in the first place.

It should aslo be noted that both failures were diagnosed and the motors were both shut down before major warranty damage occured. I guess we know maybe a little something about motors right guy's?

When I heard nothing from SA I sent an email and Susan replied that she was sorry it took so long and that she had sent a check. I felt like I had closure and truly wanted to move on and therefore sent a thank you ... I then received the partial payment and nasty letter from Bill wrapped around the check and here we are today.

FYI, Unique installed the first motor. As an expensive crate motor my expectaions would be that we would wire, plumb and simply start both "new" motors. Adjusting timing, spinning distributors, tightening rockers, solving leaks should not be an issue for expensive new motors with less than 5 hours running time in a garage.

We did not need a "crystal ball" to tell that the replacement motor had never been run because we became very familiar with the replacement motor and its condition when it arrived as we spent much time moving around parts and hardware. This was when we noted that the oil pan was full of clean new motor oil and started to explore if in fact it had been run on Bill's "test stand". We also joked at the lack of attention to detail as we know it is a major no-no to ship a motor with fluids inside.This inspection and reinstall was performed by AutoStrada in my heated garage as I did not have a way to transport the car and did not want the the car out of my care and custody.