Why do I have high fuel pressure...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

Actually, I did find it odd that the primary was brass, the secondary, black nitrophyl, thanx for answering that question. So, if the brass is on the primary only, then there would be no need to do the floss test, right? (Can't interfere with the secondary metering plate if it's only the primary side.) Also, if I did the floss test, should I use the wax or unwaxed kind? (only joking!) s

Right, I don't think you need to floss either side of the carb. With the primary bowl back on, and the sight plug out, and the electric fuel pump on, if the gas is not pouring out the hole like a river, and you can see the gas level using a little flashlight, then I think all is well with the float and needle/seat. In other words, that's good enough for now and should be good enough to get the car running. The only thing I can come up with that would let you have a "tornado" of gas through the primary is a power valve that was stuck in the open position, so that gas was just pouring by it in gobs. Watching for the accelerator pump arm, and making sure it's not positioned improperly under the pump, is the only other object that's even involved with the bowl -- and I can't think how that would cause the tornado effect, it would just make your squirter not squirt.

[steve meltzer]

I assume that the little black triangular piece is afixed correctly at the top of the bowl, under the gasket, right? s

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

I assume that the little black triangular piece is afixed correctly at the top of the bowl, under the gasket, right? s

Correct.

[steve meltzer]

so far, so good. thanx again. s

[steve meltzer]

Well, it appears that bad teeth have won the battle. Can't get enough starter bite to start the engine, tho' it sounds very promising for a nanosecond. Put a socket on the crank pulley to change the geometery, but, as noted, not enough meshing to get 'er started for more than a second, then the starter won't engage the ring gear any longer. Set the primary float with the e-pump pulling 5 PSI, and the float is unchanged from before, so that's not the issue. Not sure why, but there's clearly a sl. amount of raw gasoline lying atop the secondary butterflies, tho' the car never started. arggggh. s

[Gaz64]

You can set the float level roughly with the engine off, but the engine needs to running, consuming fuel on the idle circuit to make an accurate level check.

Especially with sight glass bowls.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

Well, it appears that bad teeth have won the battle
...
Not sure why, but there's clearly a sl. amount of raw gasoline lying atop the secondary butterflies, tho' the car never started. arggggh. s

Well I was afraid of that. Although, on the bright side, I told my daughter, who is in her second year of dental school, that I was helping a Texas gynecologist with bad teeth, and she was quite interested... for a moment, at least. OK, if you're going to replace the flywheel, or at least the gear around it, you might as well replace the pressure plate, driven disk, TOB, and pilot bushing, if they all have 15 years on them. Well, bright and early tomorrow, lets start pulling the seats and tunnel. Did you pull the N/S valve out of the secondary side as well, in order to put a dab of Vaseline on the O-ring? Or did you only do that on the primary side (which now appears to be fixed).

[steve meltzer]

Gaz64-thanx for explaining the reason the engine should be running for the most accurate float setting.

That this was inevitable was obvious the moment I spotted the rotten dentition! (Not once, in all of my training did they even mention teeth, and rarely, feet!)

Unfortunately, and despite having two lifts, both have been tied up for months and it will be several months until one of them is available. At my age, doing this without a lift is out of the question. An alternative to this would be to do what i can from above (with some stuff done on the jack stands) and tow it to a shop near me. That would be less satisfying, more expensive (and he's pretty cheap), more risk of damage to the car, but faster. Might need a good bottle of zinfandel to make that call.

It's been less than a year since I did this exact exercise...the original hydraulic T/O bearing was leaking and failed, and the car wouldn't stay in 3rd gear. Pulled the tranny and had it rebuilt, and put in a Kirkham mechanical t/o bearing, with his slave to move it. (wonky purple colored unit!). At that time, the flywheel was not resurfaced, the teeth looked good on the ring gear, and the pilot bearing was replaced. Pressure plate looked good and the clutch disc was within spec. Did I do something wrong to bring on all of these plagues? thanx.....Apparently, no redemption in my garage. steve

[patrickt]

Well, that's a personal decision. As you know, the only heavy piece is the transmission. My TKO is almost exactly 100 lbs., and I have a weight-lifting high schooler who can dead-lift that amount almost with one arm tied behind his back. An alternative to that would be to whip up a quick transmission sling with 2 x 4's and a block and tackle. Envision a small "beam bridge" over your transmission, with a block and tackle sling, acting to hold it up, and then allowing it to easily pull out and away. Casters on the bottom of the bridge could allow it to roll easily. The bridge could either be inside the car, or outside the car. Once you had the transmission out of the way, the rest is pretty much all down hill, even for one set of hands... unless you were really heavy handed with the red Loctite last go-around.

[patrickt]

[steve meltzer]

Patrick, thanx again. Def'n cogitating on my next move (but the car won't move 'till I get my tuchas in gear!). I'll post the list. s

[patrickt]

Steve, how much does your carb tilt in one direction or another? Almost none of our carbs sit perfectly horizontal on an FE, but if you step back and look at yours, how much difference is there between the nose and the tail?

[steve meltzer]

i'll have to check that when i get a chance, probably in a few days. thanx again s

[patrickt]

OK, I was helping another Holley 4160 owner recover from a dicey rebuild and lo and behold the Power Valve that came in the rebuild kit was opening and closing in the metering block almost like the diaphragm in a fuel pump. His vacuum, because of a larger cam, was a little lower than one might think, and the new PV opened at a number that was higher than it should, and that's where the two lines on the graph crossed -- making it open and close in rapid succession causing all sorts of goofy problems. Now, we didn't see the Ajax "white tornado" that we grew up with, but almost... with the engine hot and fuel percolating in to the venturis and "smoking" out. But, changing the PV, and setting the floats a little lower, solved all the problems. And the poor hot idle complaints that he had been enduring were fixed by setting the idle via the secondaries (by the secondary stop screw that you can get to with the proper tool, usually at least) and having the primary butterflies way down low below the transfer slot. I don't know if you ever had a problem with your idle being rich after the engine gets good and hot but, if you do, that's how you fix it. It's literally a magic trick for the 4160 and, if nobody ever tells you about it, you'd likely never guess it on your own.

[steve meltzer]

Thanx for the most interesting education. I didn't know that you could even set the idle at the secondaries, so thanx again for that. The Cobra is still sleeping while I finish some other stuff, tho' never far from my mind.

Did have the occasion, last weekend, to put a kit in my '67 'Vette's 4160. Hard to start when hot and died when hot at idle and had fuel stains on the intake. Had come corrosion around the negative terminal of the battery, which didn't help. With the floats set by the preliminary method (level with bowl inverted) fuel poured out of the sight plug. To get "just a minimal trickle" the N/S had to be screwed in all the way...no threads showing. Car now runs great. Too much fuel is a bad thing...if it's at the wrong time! thanx again. s

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by steve meltzer

Thanx for the most interesting education. I didn't know that you could even set the idle at the secondaries, so thanx again for that.

Holley has a little vid on it -- but you don't hear it discussed all that much. Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ROjrGAH2I In the vid they say you can only access the screw with the carb off the engine, but it is my experience that, with most of our manifolds, you can use a right angle, short end straight blade screwdriver and make the adjustment on the car. With a non-removable Turkey Pan, it might be touch and go on that. For a large displacement, decent duration camshaft, engine like most of the FEs that are in our Cobras, idling the 4160 off the secondaries is the single best trick I know, next to cleaning the air bleeds, to make the engine idle and run beautifully at low throttle.

[steve meltzer]

i'll check it out. thanx again. s

[steve meltzer]

I realized (while working on the 4160 from my '67 'Vette) that while you can raise the float level, and thus the fuel level, on the 4160 by turning the needle/seat CCW, the opposite isn't true...before you can drop the float, you must rock the car to empty the bowl with the sight plug out or else the float won't drop because there's too much fuel in the bowl. Then you can turn the N/S CW and thus decrease the fuel level. Duh! steve

[patrickt]

The way I do it (no jokes please) is to put a paper towel under the boosters and then put my mouth on the vent tube and blow down through it. Gas flows right out the boosters and drops the level quick as a flash. Easiest and quickest way I know.

[steve meltzer]

well, flash whomever you'd like, as long as you remember to blow, not suck. s