Club Cobra Gas - N Exhaust  

Go Back   Club Cobra > Engine Building, Tuning, and Induction > Ignition

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
Keith Craft Racing
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
Keith Craft Racing
Keith Craft Racing
March 2024
S M T W T F S
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-28-2009, 03:50 PM
CC Member / Sponsor
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Provo, UT
Cobra Make, Engine: Daytona Coupe
Posts: 1,356
Not Ranked     
Default MSD Rotor phasing

Well with all the problems with phasing distributors, I thought I would take some pictures on how to make a tool and phase your rotor in your distributor. You will need an old distributor cap and a timing light.

The first step is to modify the distributor cap. The V shaped notch on the top is to check and make sure that the top of the rotor is contacting the terminal inside the cap.


I cut two large windows so I could better see what is going on.


Next I marked the rotor with a Sharpie.


Putting everything back together


In this picture I hooked up the timing light to the post I wanted to illuminate. This picture was taken with the engine running and with the timing light hooked up. Note that the mark is lined up with the post. This is what you want.


Hope this helps.
__________________
Evolve Lubricants
https://evolvelube.com/
Cubic Performance

Last edited by Tom Kirkham; 09-28-2009 at 03:56 PM.. Reason: Clarity
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 06:42 AM
Seasoned Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portsmouth, VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Unique 427 S/C, Dart 427W "Replica" Ford engine
Posts: 584
Not Ranked     
Smile

Thanks, Tom. This is something I've been meaning to do. For those of us who DON'T have a box of old MSD caps laying around, will the cheap parts store caps do as well for chopping up?
Bill Stradtner
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 07:05 AM
Jerry Clayton's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bartlett, Ill
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett-Morrison LS1
Posts: 2,448
Not Ranked     
Default

there used to be a clear cap available---I used one on my pro stocker--don't remember who made it
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 07:42 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kansas City, KS
Cobra Make, Engine: jbl
Posts: 2,291
Not Ranked     
Default

drill a hole next to #1 terminal on top between button and terminal, white nail polish on top of bug pointer and use a timing light as described above works well. then you can plug the hole when done or leave open and use as vent system.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 08:30 AM
Rick Parker's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: California, Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 Slabside Early Comp Car with 289 Webers and all the goodies. Cancelling the efforts of several Priuses
Posts: 6,592
Not Ranked     
Default

MSD has also suggested doing as Vector 1 suggested. View from above. Use a sacraficial cap or one that s being replaced. MSD markets a Rotor with an adjustable tip that fits several applications including the small diameter billet distributors that are popular with several of our engines. #84211. Originally designed to remidy issues associated with EFI, it can be used with carbureter application if needed.

http://www.msdignition.com/product.a...69&terms=84211
__________________
Rick

As you slide down the Banister of Life, may the splinters never be pointing the wrong way

Last edited by Rick Parker; 09-29-2009 at 08:32 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:32 AM
cobred's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #698 428 Toploader
Posts: 291
Not Ranked     
Default

What is the reason for doing this, Im not sure I understand.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:46 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 409
Not Ranked     
Default

The closer the rotor points to the correct dist cap terminal, the less chance of going to the wrong terminal (crossfire) and the shorter spark means potentially more energy to the plugs.

He is getting it bang on because he can. No mech advance inside the dist. With an advance mechanism, the rotor has a range of movement around the respective terminal.

Large rotor caps have reduced the need for this to some extent (for the crossfire problem), but it's still a good idea.

Did I get that right?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 09:51 AM
Rick Parker's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: California, Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 Slabside Early Comp Car with 289 Webers and all the goodies. Cancelling the efforts of several Priuses
Posts: 6,592
Not Ranked     
Default

It is a means on verifying and correcting as necessary the rotor position so it is lined up with the conductor post in the distributor cap when the coil discharges.

Tom: Don't send it back to MSD for a warranty claim.............
__________________
Rick

As you slide down the Banister of Life, may the splinters never be pointing the wrong way
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 10:23 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Crystal Lake, IL
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett-Morrison, 434 cid
Posts: 977
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobred View Post
What is the reason for doing this, Im not sure I understand.

For a carburated application, using a crank trigger, rotor phasing is adjusted by rotating the distributor and this would be the method to verify that adjustment. If you are using the magnetic pickup in the distributor then this method verifys that MSD built the distributor correctly.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 11:18 AM
Got the Bug's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF 2613 Titanium w/Black, Roush 402SR
Posts: 4,097
Not Ranked     
Default

If the phasing is off, what action do you take?
__________________
Doug

No stop signs, speed limit - Nobody's gonna slow me down - Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 11:44 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 409
Not Ranked     
Default

you can buy adjustable rotor buttons
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2009, 11:56 AM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,888
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Got the Bug View Post
If the phasing is off, what action do you take?
This is the little flier that comes with the MSD distributor.



Last edited by patrickt; 11-07-2016 at 12:52 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2009, 03:20 PM
Eljaro's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Palma de Mallorca, Spain, ESP
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary with 482 KC/SO, TKO600,IRS Jag/AMP, 3.54 Salisbury PL,
Posts: 577
Not Ranked     
Angry

The phasing on my distributor was off, not by much but enough to give me hesitation on full advance. I did loosen up the magnetic pickup and moved it as much as the holes allowed in the most advanced position ( it was firing well past the terminal) and it was enough. Now the rotor lines up perfectly and the hesitation and misfiring is gone.
My MSD distributor out of the box was NOT phased correctly. I never checked the phasing because MSD claims that it is factory set correctly and I believed such an apparently serious company.
I wasted a lot of time and bought a new 6AL box, a new mag pickup, a new cap, new springs, new weights and made myself several cables connecting the 6Al to the distributor, shielded and twisted and you name it.
In the end upon seeing this thread I modified a distributor cap and saw that the phasing was off. My problem is solved, but some money and time was wasted:mad :
__________________
Nothing sounds better than a Cobra in a Tunnel !
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:11 PM
RodKnock's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,588
Not Ranked     
Default

Here's a dumb question. How does one know if he or she has a "crank trigger" system? I'm running a 8594 MSD Billet distributor and a MSD Digital 6 ignition, but now I'm curious, and would like to check my rotor phasing and I know that "crank trigger" systems are treated differently according to the MSD instructions.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:18 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,888
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Here's a dumb question. How does one know if he or she has a "crank trigger" system? I'm running a 8594 MSD Billet distributor and a MSD Digital 6 ignition, but now I'm curious, and would like to check my rotor phasing and I know that "crank trigger" systems are treated differently according to the MSD instructions.
That's not a dumb question at all. The violet/green wires from your MSD box will run to either your distributor or a crank trigger. If the little wires that come out of your distributor run to nothing (the plug is not hooked up to anything) then you have a crank trigger. If they run to your MSD box then you have regular magnetic pickup. The overwhelming odds are that you do not have a crank trigger.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:20 PM
Got the Bug's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF 2613 Titanium w/Black, Roush 402SR
Posts: 4,097
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
Here's a dumb question. How does one know if he or she has a "crank trigger" system? I'm running a 8594 MSD Billet distributor and a MSD Digital 6 ignition, but now I'm curious, and would like to check my rotor phasing and I know that "crank trigger" systems are treated differently according to the MSD instructions.
The other question is, if you're not experiencing any symptoms whatsoever, how much are you really going to gain by checking the phasing. Seems like a lot of tweaking for a small or no payoff.
__________________
Doug

No stop signs, speed limit - Nobody's gonna slow me down - Like a wheel, gonna spin it
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:21 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,888
Not Ranked     
Default

RodKnock, if your engine is revving nicely, then don't even touch the distributor cap.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:33 PM
RodKnock's Avatar
Senior Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 539, a Ton of Aluminum
Posts: 9,588
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt View Post
RodKnock, if your engine is revving nicely, then don't even touch the distributor cap.
To be honest, I don't have a ton of seat time, so I don't know if it's an acute or chronic issue, but yes, there's was some disturbance in the higher rpm on my last run that I took last weekend. Now, I also need to check the rev limiter to see what's the RPM limit too. I may have been bumping against the rev limiter.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:33 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,888
Not Ranked     
Default

See the two wires coming down out of that black spirally looking thing on the base of the distributor? That's your magnetic pickup. That will lead to the violet/green wires in your MSD box. If those wires are not hooked up to anything, then you have a crank trigger. I'm almost positive though that you don't.


Last edited by patrickt; 11-07-2016 at 12:52 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2009, 04:38 PM
patrickt's Avatar
Half-Ass Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,888
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnock View Post
To be honest, I don't have a ton of seat time, so I don't know if it's an acute or chronic issue, but yes, there's was some disturbance in the higher rpm on my last run that I took last weekend. Now, I also need to check the rev limiter to see what's the RPM limit too. I may have been bumping against the rev limiter.
Less than 5% of Cobra patients respond to a rotor-phasing. I would treat empirically with a basic tune up, after confirming of course that you don't have a simple rev limiter issue.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink