Turkey Pan

pusherfans · #1 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 09:50 AM

Alright, so I just completed "dialing" in my carb and finally put the cold air box back in and now it idles funny. Not to mentioned the PIA it was to get everything connected and adjusted.

So my question is (not really answerable since it is a taste thing) is the turkey pan worth the hassle for the look. I don't care about whether it adds or hurts performance, I just like the look, but right now, to me it's not with the hassle, should I have to adjust anything on the carb.

The idle was perfect before the pan was added, but after, it now moves around. When I stop the car at a light, it's at 1100 RPM, in about 30 seconds, it drops to 1000, then makes it's way to 700 and my cam does not like 700. I did adjust the throttle linkage after all of this (it needed it since the carb is the thickness of the pan and one extra gasket taller). So hopefully, it was not fully closing and will now be better, but that could be wishful thinking.

No need to respond, since there is no real question here, I'll update as to what I find out after the next drive. Just venting.

Ps. Yes, I am ware of the two piece turkey pan, but don't like the lack of upper lip and rivited front vs the old school one. . . .

Jamo · #2 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 09:57 AM

Drill/cut some more access holes.

Have a beer.

PFSlim · #3 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 10:00 AM

Mine did not have any access holes when I installed it. We had to drill some holes to provide the carb guy with some access to adjust the carb.

Paul

streetrod1927 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 10:17 AM

Get intouch with Master Touch. They make a T/P where the upper part of the pan can be removed for carb adjustments. Just put one on my car. Nice product and at a fair price.

dcdoug · #5 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by streetrod1927

Get intouch with Master Touch. They make a T/P where the upper part of the pan can be removed for carb adjustments. Just put one on my car. Nice product and at a fair price.

The alternative to that is send your plan to Acton Custom (mickmate on this forum) and he can make your TP "convertible" so you can remove the sides like with the Master Touch set up. Or he can just sell you the baseplate and you can make your own TP convertible. I did that. I preferred it over drilling holes in the TP.

MFE III · #6 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 11:07 AM

the high idle slowly dropping down sounds like a vacuum leak. Could easily happen when reinstalling the T-pan and carb between the PCV hose and the gaskets.
Matt

1ntCobra · #7 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 11:09 AM

I thought the Kirkhams recently made a 2 piece turkey pan.

pusherfans · #8 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFE III

the high idle slowly dropping down sounds like a vacuum leak. Could easily happen when reinstalling the T-pan and carb between the PCV hose and the gaskets.
Matt

No PCV connections and all new gaskets. Any suggestion on how to check? Should there be additional sealer anywhere?

FIA-ERA · #9 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 01:34 PM

I can feel your pain as mine does the same thing! It idles perfect in the drive way but the moment you close the hood it changes and does the exact same thing as yours at stops! It was suggested to drill some large round holes to allow more air in but this really kills the look. At speed it's fine BUT I read a thread somewhere that the turkey pan really kills off some HP! I'm ready to sh-t can it myself but it looks so damn cool, plus all the work that went into it to make it work. I don't believe I have any vacuum leaks either. I'm about to try a double pumper to see if that helps wake the motor up any. Let me know what happens! Matt

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIA-ERA

I can feel your pain as mine does the same thing! It idles perfect in the drive way but the moment you close the hood it changes and does the exact same thing as yours at stops! It was suggested to drill some large round holes to allow more air in but this really kills the look. At speed it's fine BUT I read a thread somewhere that the turkey pan really kills off some HP! I'm ready to sh-t can it myself but it looks so damn cool, plus all the work that went into it to make it work. I don't believe I have any vacuum leaks either. I'm about to try a double pumper to see if that helps wake the motor up any. Let me know what happens! Matt

I have no problems with my TP and Holley 750cfm combo -- it idles fine, runs great, but I'm a believer in smaller carbs, rather than larger. If you remove your air cleaner entirely and close your hood do you still have the same problem? BTW, the studies and comparisons showed that it was not the TP that caused the reduction in HP, but rather the air cleaner that was used to fit inside the TP. If you use the K&N air filter with the S&H housing the HP reduction is not very much (there was still some, if I recall correctly, but it wasn't enough to matter).

pusherfans · #11 (**permalink**) 05-17-2010, 08:01 PM

The problem began after the installation of the TP. I had taken it off to try different jet combos until I got it right (using an O2 sensor). It was perfect until I installed the TP, same air filter all along. However, I did readjust the throttle linkage after the funny idle problem and have not test driven it yet. So as soon as the weather clears up, I'll drive it again and report back. Perhaps, it was just the throttle linkage. If not, I'll try pulling the TP off again and see what it does. Interesting learning experience.

dcdoug · #12 (**permalink**) 05-18-2010, 06:41 AM

I assume you used new gaskets and one between the intake and TP and TP and carb? Any chance the edge on the TP got bent at all and is causing and indentation into the gasket and a leak? I also assume that none of the vacuum port nipples came off in the process? Might double check that. Uh, ask me how I know about that last one.

patrickt · #13 (**permalink**) 05-18-2010, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I assume you used new gaskets and one between the intake and TP and TP and carb? Any chance the edge on the TP got bent at all and is causing and indentation into the gasket and a leak? I also assume that none of the vacuum port nipples came off in the process? Might double check that. Uh, ask me how I know about that last one.

The easiest way to check that is with a propane torch (no flame, of course). Squirt it around the base of the carb and if your idle evens out then you have a leak.

undy · #14 (**permalink**) 05-18-2010, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

The easiest way to check that is with a propane torch (no flame, of course). Squirt it around the base of the carb and if your idle evens out then you have a leak.

...or if everything blows up then you also have an arcing plug wire,

patrickt · #15 (**permalink**) 05-18-2010, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by undy

...or if everything blows up then you also have an arcing plug wire,

Well, you should be careful when you're doing it.

PANAVIA · #16 (**permalink**) 05-19-2010, 01:43 AM

Carb cleaner does that same thing, and there is little chance of things "Blowing up".

My personal ethos would want a 2pc turkey pan if at all. --

Mark Thompson · #17 (**permalink**) 05-19-2010, 06:26 PM

The Kirkhams do offer a 2 piece turkey pan. Like all Kirkham fabrications, it is a joy to behold. I am using mine to hold all the miscellaneous hardware left over from the 625 build, sitting on the corner of my workbench.

Mark

mickmate · #18 (**permalink**) 05-19-2010, 08:00 PM

Can you tell we made this a convertible?

pusherfans · #19 (**permalink**) 05-20-2010, 11:49 AM

Okay, I'm back. Drove the car wih the linkage adjusted and it's no better. In fact, I had a little time to find a few more problems.

1) chugs like a farm tractor (put, put, put, put) until 2100 RPM, then changes to the normal “purr” of a V8.
2) Bogs heavy at 1800 rpm under just enough throttle to keep it moving (driving like a grandmother)
3) Puffs of “steam” coming out of breathers, hard to see and happens randomly. Since the oil temp never rises above 180 degrees (most of the time it is at 160 or less) this could just be steam, or a hole in the piston. . . .

I spoke with Tom Kirkham and he is having me check a bunch of things:

1) Timing
2) Spray starting fluid or water around the base of the carb to check for vacuum leaks
3) Check the A/F mixture again with the O2 sensor again
4) Check distributor guts to see if it is all looking okay and the bottom of the cap too

I have a feeling that all of this is from the turkey pan due to a vacuum leak or air disturbance created by the pan, since it ran so nicely before the addition of the pan.

I’ll keep you posted with what I find. Fuel injection is sounding so good right about now. . .

pusherfans · #20 (**permalink**) 05-21-2010, 08:06 PM

I tried the vacuum leak test and it made no difference in the way the engine ran. Perhaps it's not a vacuum leak.

On a hunch, the next day, (today) with the engine stone cold, I decided to pull the plugs and check them out.

They all looked dark gray, except one was black (#8)(see picture below) and one was super clean white (#6). (see attached picture). I put it all back together and than decided to check the condictivity of each while. When I pulled the one that had the wire plug, the boot came off and the metal inside conductor stayed on the plug. wire 7 and 6 were both 1.9 Kohms) Maybe it was a bad crimp?

I plan on putting in new wires, new rotor, cap and plugs. I had the Keith Craft wires, does anyone know what type they are? I was thinking about going with Taylor, or MSD wires. Any suggestion on thickness, spiral, etc? (I have an MSD 6AL2, MSD billet distributor and coil)

thanks!

ps. do you think this could be a bad wire, or a valve train issue?

edit: updated pictures