More Air For My Kirkham

[BANDIT 1]

I remember a discussion about these air filters where in some cases (on a Cobra) the gas was being sucked out the top.

[RACER X #99]

If you guys are trying to squeeze more power out of those big blocks, you gotta get a much bigger air cleaner.
The K&N website says I need a 4"X14" filter for my little sb to flow enough air so how do you guys expect those tiny little filters to do the job on your Monster Moders.

Cranky

[PatBuckley]

Cranky -

I guess they're going for those last few horsepower - sometimes that loss of 10 horses on a street car can make all the difference.

[W. MITTY]

RacerX,

I agree; it seems clear that the air cleaner I'm using (even with the modest increase in size) is still way too small. However, the constraints of the hole in the hood and, worse, the width and height of the scoop, make a larger filter impossible. In order to give the engine all the air it needs, I'd have to cut a gigantic hole in the hood and use a huge aluminum hood scoop. My dilemma is whether to sacrifice go in the interest of show?

Oh well, maybe if I cut a hole in the hood, I'll just leave the scoop off and go for a blower.

Pat,

Every last pony counts when you've only got 600 in such a heavy car.

[Jamo]

decooney

I'm pretty sure the basturd who put together the Xtreme top so it wouldn't come apart is the same basturd who designed the plastic and foil packaging for Nicorettes gum so you need a cigarette to burn it open.


Cranky

No doubt you're right, but some of us like the turkey pan look and the top will give back at least a little of the space given up by the small size. It's a compromise like everything else I guess.

[RACER X #99]

Jamo,
Or you could go the Cranky route and lower the engine a couple of inches.( just kidding)
If I had one of those fine Kirkham or Shelby Cobras I'd be doing just what you guys are doing. They ran just fine with those Stellings for 40 years so why change things now, except for the K&N filter.

Pretty quiet around here lately without what's his name.

Cranky

[HSSS427]

Not the best quality, but here's a picture from a mailer of the Motorsports International air filter. THey say it has a K&N filter, but I wonder if you could get the same size oval in a thicker size ie I think I could fit a 3" thick filter under the hood scoop.

It's not cheap either - about $180 plus $40 for the filter

[W. MITTY]

HSSS427--

Thanks for the picture -- it looks like a great option to consider. I wonder whether the extra surface area provided by the oval shape is greater than the surface area obtained through the use of the X-Stream lid and the 9" filter. If so, it would seem to be a great alternative to cutting the hood.


One thing for sure-- it sure looks better than the X-Stream lid!

[Jamo]

Mitty...a little tin foil and you'll have that hood back to original in no time.

I just wished they'd make a Xtreme the same diameter as the S&H so you could swap back and forth.


Roger...shhhhhhhhhh, don't wake him up.

[Randy Rosenberg]

If that's a standard size oval KN filter, then would it make sense that someone else makes the top/bottom (for less than $180)?

[David Kirkham]

Gents:

Well, if they don't make the S&H filter housing the right diameter...how about we billet one out of aluminum?

Thoughts?

David

[Randy Rosenberg]

Look what I found on the K&N Web site: http://knfilters.com/Racing/custom66.htm

I don't particularly like the designs on the top, however wouldn't the 11-7/8" x 8-3/8" x 3"h size fit in a turkey pan?

[Jamo]

David

They have round K&Ns that will fit the S&H. The problem is that the smallest Xtreme top is 9", which is just a bit wider than than the S&H and hangs over a bit...I think you had one on your own car that way (?). Mitty solved that by getting a cheap 9" bottom from Pep Boys.

Now, if you could get K&N to sell you the Xtrem top filter part only and made the outer ring the same diameter as the S&H...that would be cool.

Or, a slightly wider turkey pan, which, like you said, would also help with tuner carbs that are too wide for the normal turkey pan.

Or, make a cool oval shaped bottom and top that would fit a standard issue K&N oval filter that fits in a turkey pan...that would be cool too.

Hurry up!

[HSSS427]

Looks like they start at $131 and go up to $155 for the big ones. It looks like it would fit fine on the width, but my turkey pan has pretty large radius corners so at some point the pan is less than 8 38" wide toward the ends. The 11 7/8" length is a bit "iffy" depending on where the filter starts to curve vs where the turkey pan starts to narrow. However, since I can't tell a lot of detail from the Motorsports Int'l picture I'm going to be P.O.'d if it's the same thing Summit is selling for $90 less.

Wonder if the 4" oval element on this will clear the hood scoop?

[David Kirkham]

This is definatly an area of the car that needs help. I will talk with Thomas and some of the other guys that build engines and see what we can come up with.

Undoubtedly, there must be some smart guys around here who can come up with some cool things. LET US KNOW!!!

David

[HSSS427]

David,
First, I'm talking about single 4bbl with Turkey pan and won't comment on the dual quad layout since I don't have that setup. I think we might set the Stelling & Hellings look aside, as MHO is that the S&H filter will always be the "original" look, and if that is more of a priority than performance you buy that. Second option is to have one in the trunk and if you go to a show or someplace where you really want it to look like the original, then you take 1 minute and put that on.

Now, for everyday and performance considerations, seems you'd basically want to maximize the air flow within the following constraints:
1. The turkey pan stays on - so that's a major size limiter
2. The hood scoop doesn't get modified from the top or bottom. Maybe it's me, or an aversion to dentists, but taking a dremmel tool to my hood gives me the "heeby jeebies"
3. Some of the more scientific and fluid dynamics types will have to determine if there are other parameters within items 1 and 2 that should be considered. Like - how much space does there need to be between the filter set-up and the edge of the turkey pan? Pros & cons of a top that is a filter ie the K&N Extreme.

My non-engineering mind says the max you could get would be to put a narrow bottom plate on the carb and then attach some kind of foam filter material to the edge that then seals to the side of the turkey pan - this would effectively be the bottom side of the filter, but still allow air to come in from the bottom. For all I know, it might be better to keep the bottom solid as additional means to keep engine compartment air from coming in.

The top would be something that has filter material covering the entire top of the turkey pan - kind of like cutting a piece of foam the exact shape of the I.D. of the pan and setting it in there. Would definately be an ugly thing. Maybe you spruce up the top by putting a perforated billet aluminum top on it that has a seal around the edge so that when you close the hood it helps seal the scoop opening to the top of the turkey pan.

BTW, when you productize this and make millions off it, I expect commission in the form of one of your aluminum bodies
Thanks!
Scott

[W. MITTY]

Originally posted by David Kirkham


Gents:

Well, if they don't make the S&H filter housing the right diameter...how about we billet one out of aluminum?

Thoughts?

David

If it's got the word billet in it, I'm interested. A 9" billet top and bottom housing in S&H style would be perfect, then I could put the 9" K&N element in it. It'd be extra cool if it had the Kirkham "K" on it somwhere.

[sshurts]

David,

I love the look of the Turkey Pan and have spent too much time messing with getting everything to work in and around it.

If I had a wish it would be a replicate of what you already make, but about 1 or 2 inches larger in diameter (side to side). I speak without measuring for other clearance issues, but let me just say that some extra room around the linkage is huge. The linkage and attachment is a royal pain to get working. Of course, I'm running a Davinci carb and it might have some to do with the extra, extra tight clearance. Either way, for the casual observer it wouldn't be noticable...

any chance of such a product...?

Scott

[David Kirkham]

WM,

Now you have me thinking...

Scott,

We are working on a new revised version to help everyone out. It may take a while, but I will keep you updated.

David

[HSSS427]

Here's the filter setup that I got from Motorsports International


Haven't been back on the dyno so am interested to see how much improvement it provides over the standard Stelling & Hellings setup.
Scott