WHY do you worry about Socialism?

[Excaliber]

"Right to life" depends on your definition OF life. I have little interest in discussing the abortion issue myself. But if you want to open that can of worm's it might be better suited in a separate thread. In a nut shell: I support abortion rights in cases of incest, rape, life threatening issue for the mother and in other extraordinary cases. Very glad I don't have to make those calls!

Back to GM. Seems to me the primary reason for the Gov stepping in was the idea that a standard bankruptcy for GM would have taken to long and emperiled the all ready suffering economy even further. That's why the Gov put a time table on a bankruptcy solution.

I'm not sure the anti-trust regulations go far enough to limit mega corporation growth/size? Perhaps they do. If so, then more stringent application of existing regulations, laws would be the answer. This is one issue that is still be looked at for a long term solution. It will be interesting to see what comes up in that regard.

Razor, were not doomed, it's gonna be OK man, hang in there!

On a side note: That darn Unicorn keeps eating the corn I'm leaving out for the conservaties...

[RAZOR]

Ex, I hope they offer anti depressant meds on this new health care bill, I'm going to need them.

[bomelia]

Earnie, you know you did not answer the question. If our government engages in an activity that is not covered in the constitution, then it is unconstitutional.

You say we are so dependent on governement services that we would all die if those services were removed. Really? That is sad. I do not agree either.

Just because you think it should be so, it does not necessarily follow that it should be so.

[tcrist]

[quote=Excaliber;1011433
On a side note: That darn Unicorn keeps eating the corn I'm leaving out for the conservaties...[/QUOTE]


You are correct , again, cute mind game Ernie. Soon the gate will close, they and others will be stuck shuffling around in your thread for-ever.

[Tom Kirkham]

[Excaliber]

...I think Terry might be onto me...

Soon my pretty, soon... Muwahaahhhaaa


bomelia, lets try it one more time.

You say we are so dependent on governement services that we would all die if those services were removed.

I never said that, I said SOME Americans WILL DIE if you pull out ALL Government services. Example: We see it every winter when some one dies because they cannot afford heat. A basic need. Moving on to the question:

"Do Americans have a right to minimum living standards?" Like heat? Food to keep from starving to death? Health Care to keep from dieing from an immediate life threatening injury?

The thought that someone, or some Government, would seek to deny these basic services to those who cannot provide it for themselves is truly disgusting. To suggest such an idea is to challenge the very concept of things like: emergency medical care when an immediate life threatening condition exists, as well as a host of other Federal programs.

[tcrist]

Great video Tom. Really shows the difference between Democracy/Democrats and Republic/Republicans. Sounds correct anyway.
Personally, I am an Independent. I like to be able to choose what I want from the best or worst of both sides. If I screw up at least I have had a choice.

[Excaliber]

My take on the video? I've seen it before, enjoyed seeing it again. I think it's exceptionally well presented.

Pull away all the Government services and people will die

Yup, that's exactly what I said, never edited or changed. I stand by that statement, it happens even WITH Government services available. Some folks are in such a state of despair they are unable to even utilize such services.

I once hired, part time, a gal who could not read, not a word. She did what she could around the shop, I paid her accordingly. I got her into a learning to read program, she couldn't even handle that! One day I sent her to run an errand for me on a moped. Moped broke down, she walked back to the shop. I asked her why she didn't take the bus, she had money. She can't READ the bus schedule! She is to embarrased to ask directions! She needed to change her clothes because she pissed herself before she got back. Couldn't find a public restroom along the way... Life is very very hard when your 'stupid', bless her heart. I won't turn my back on these folks.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

My take on the video? I've seen it before, enjoyed seeing it again. I think it's exceptionally well presented.

Pull away all the Government services and people will die


Yup, that's exactly what I said, never edited or changed. I stand by that statement, it happens even WITH Government services available.

Looks like people are dying anyways, here as well, in "model democratic" countries.

Big freeze kills at least 80 across Europe
PARIS (AFP) – The death toll from winter storms across Europe rose to at least 80 on Monday as transport chaos spread amid mounting anger over the three-day failure of Eurostar high-speed trains.

With tens of thousands stranded by the cancellation of London-to-Paris trains and hundreds of flights across the continent, new accidents and mass power cuts added to the big freeze tumult.

A car veered off an icy road and knocked concrete onto rails, derailing a Paris commuter train and injuring 36 people, police said. Three hundred people had to be evacuated from the train.

Another train in the Croatian capital Zagreb hit a buffer injuring 52 people.

Croatian investigators blamed the minus 17 degrees Celsius (1.4 Fahrenheit) temperatures for a brake failure, national television reported. European temperatures as low as minus 33.6 degrees Celsius (minus 28.5 Fahrenheit) have been recorded in Bavaria.

In Poland, authorities said 42 people, many of them homeless, had died of cold over three days after temperatures plunged to minus 20 degrees Celsius (minus four Fahrenheit).

Ukraine reported 27 deaths while six people were killed in accidents in Germany and three in Austria.

France has reported at least two deaths of homeless people, and the national power company briefly cut electricity to two million people on Monday saying it was necessary to avoid an even bigger blackout amid surging demand.

More flights were cancelled in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Portugal and Spain and main highways were blocked across Europe where some regions had more than 50 centimetres (20 inches) of snow.

The breakdown of the Eurostar service under the Channel, linking London with Paris and Brussels, has symbolised Europe's suffering.

After the nightmare of more than 2,000 people stuck in the tunnel when five trains broke down Friday, tens of thousands more people have missed trains cancelled since then, with Eurostar announcing a "restricted" service for Tuesday.

Eurostar to restart some services

But those trains will only run for passengers originally due to travel Saturday or Sunday, with the remainder of the backlog to be cleared over the next few days. Normal service is not expected to resume before Christmas Day.

The French transport ministry has ordered an investigation into the breakdown, which Eurostar said has been caused by trains unable to handle the change from freezing temperatures outside to warm temperatures in the tunnel.

Eurostar said it had launched its own independent review.

The winter storms caused other disruption across Europe.

Air traffic was again badly hit as temperatures remained glacial: minus 20 degrees Celsius in Sibiu in Romania, where more than 50 centimetres of snow fell, and minus seven Celsius in Venice, Italy.

Seven hundred people spent the night on camp beds at Amsterdam-Schipol airport and more flights were cancelled after dozens were grounded Sunday.

The Dutch rail network was also badly hit with the railway company advising commuters to stay at home.

Heavy snowfall led to more delays and cancellations at Frankfurt and Duesseldorf airports in Germany, where more than 500 flights were cancelled or redirected on Sunday.

Twenty percent of flights out of Paris-Charles de Gaulle were cancelled Monday. The main RER commuter train line running east to west across the Paris region has been out of action for 12 days because of a strike.

Spanish civil aviation authorities said 174 flights from Madrid-Barajas airport were called off. Flights from Lisbon to Madrid were among those hit while main roads in northern Portugal were cut by snow.

Brussels airport also reported cancellations and delays.

After more snow falls on Moscow, authorities sent out 13,000 dump trucks to clear the streets as chronic traffic jams built up.

In Britain, more airport delays hit passengers while snow forced the postponement of Wigan's English Premier League football match against Bolton Wanderers.

[Excaliber]

We had a homeless fellow freeze to death right here in town about a week or so ago. I totally recognize you can't help everybody, you do your best, you don't stop because the situation looks hopeless. You don't stop offering help on a personal level, a state level or a Federal level. You just try to find the right balance.

[Ralphy]

How does someone freeze to death in Hawaii?

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

How does someone freeze to death in Hawaii?

Sorta sounds like one of them descriptions in a credit application drafted by ACORN folks, doesn't it.

[Excaliber]

OH!!!! Good catch!!! I recently moved to Oregon, where I am desperately trying not to freeze to death myself.

[bomelia]

Ernie... don't you get it? If more people did what you did to help people, we would not need the government to do it for us. In fact, Churches did and still fulfill this role. But the more the government takes, the harder it is for individuals to help. And the government comes with great inefficiency and huge overhead charges, numbers that make the United Way look heaven sent.

Our first amendment deals with freedom of religion... but this has been effectively squashed by "sectarian" types. So, there goes your unencumbered giver to the poor. But this way, government types get to live high on the hog while throwing scraps to the poor. Does it not even remotely bother you that Congress and the Senate have exempted themselves from Obama Care? And many other government types will be exmpted as well since so much is tied to how Senators and Congressmen are paid and compensated for (screw dangling particples).

Dammit, get a grip on how government works! You have no idea.

Mike

[bomelia]

And one more dang thing. How can you watch that video and NOT see parallels with what happened in Roman times and what is happening now? Just what makes you think history is propaganda?

Mike

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by bomelia

And one more dang thing. How can you watch that video and NOT see parallels with what happened in Roman times and what is happening now? Just what makes you think history is propaganda?

Mike

"dang"

You used the word "dang" in the Lounge? Try to get ahold of yourself!

[bomelia]

Originally Posted by Jamo

"dang"

You used the word "dang" in the Lounge? Try to get ahold of yourself!

Well, I actually thought about it when I typed it. "Damn" is harsh, can cause blood pressure to rise and things to get out of control. There is something funny about "dang" that takes the edge off, but still gets the point across. All in the interest of a better "Loungatude".

Dadgummit,

Mike

[Excaliber]

You know, some of my friends think I'm pretty nuts for helping some of the folks I do. The only reason I bring it up here is to illustrate some points. Generally speaking, most folks are uncomfortable talking about it.

But charities can only do so much. Some of these problems have to be addressed on a National scale, as troubling as that is.

I clearly see the parallels between Rome and the USA as put forth in that film Tom posted. I to worry that we will become out of balance, do TO much. You could make a strong case we have all ready reached that point and are moving beyond it.

However, we need to hear opposing views to find that balance point. Because most of the Lounge is hard right, I feel compelled to offer that opposing view, hard left. But to tell you the truth, sometimes I have hard time believing some of what I post as well.

Checks and balances, that is the game.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

But to tell you the truth, sometimes I have hard time believing some of what I post as well.

I just felt the need to preserve this.

[CowtownCobra]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

You know, some of my friends think I'm pretty nuts

Ummmm, ya