WHY do you worry about Socialism? - Page 8

sunman · #1 (**permalink**) 12-24-2009, 12:16 AM

AHH-OOH

I gotta go. Looks like a black helicopter over the house.
Oh wait maybe its just Santa.

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND PEACE TO ALL

Sunman, out.

Ralphy · #2 (**permalink**) 12-24-2009, 04:11 PM

OK, I have the answer to the question.

WHY do you worry about Socialism?

On a sliding scale, at one end you have Capitalism and the other Communism. Somewhere between between the two is Socialism. Where between the two is Socialism viewed? As many Americans I think would view it, they see Socialism closer to Communism then Capitalism. In a global view as Americans, me included, view Socialism as a ride down a slippery slope.

So there is your answer!

Bartruff1 · #3 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ralphy

OK, I have the answer to the question.

WHY do you worry about Socialism?

On a sliding scale, at one end you have Capitalism and the other Communism. Somewhere between between the two is Socialism. Where between the two is Socialism viewed? As many Americans I think would view it, they see Socialism closer to Communism then Capitalism. In a global view as Americans, me included, view Socialism as a ride down a slippery slope.

So there is your answer!

First I have to admit that I am not a expert with a advanced degree and decades of experience on this subject, but as a grad student at a Catholic University in the 1950s at the hight of the "Red Scare" we examined just this theory....each of the 15 students was assigned 5 countries that were in transition from a colonial , monarchy ....ect State and we actually had to conclude the opposite...that as peoples lives improved they wanted more freedom and opportunity...they wanted to own homes and businesses and property. We found that Communism didn't evolve ...it was a revolution against a corrupt government. As I look around the world today and see the growth of representative governments and free markets and private property in the former Soviet Union, Eastern Europe , China ...etc.... we might have been right... if you want to worry about something affecting our way of life, consider the effect of the Global Corporations....especially the financial instutions...if you think Goldman or AIG give a damn about the US, you have a different view than I do...small business is the backbone of our economy and needs to be protected from the flight of capital....Happy Festivius..

sunman · #4 (**permalink**) 12-24-2009, 05:00 PM

RonBo,

Thanks for your service. I too did electronics. I love ya but you have confused communism and socialism. Under socialism the more work you do (the higher your education and time served in the military) the more rewards you get. The government controls production and resource allocation. Check Websters. Our congresspeople and senators promote this confusion in the speeches they make. They have a lot to lose if things change. The military is there to protect America and our allies like Norway and Sweden, who are socialist, from attacks. Period. What you quoted is just a saying used in the military to control the men. I heard it a million times.

Ralphy , Thank you, I agree. Socialism (streets, highways, public schools, the military, social security, public grants for research and so on) is needed but best used in small doses. Medicare is a great victory for the insurance companies as it takes the old people who need more health care off their books and on to the publics. I support single payer insurance for everyone in the form of HR676. Google HR676, its a quick read. What we have now is corporate control of the people in Washington.

SUNMAN

Merry Christmas and God Bless

Ralphy · #5 (**permalink**) 12-24-2009, 05:05 PM

Sunman,
It is the job of the Federal Government to provide what no entity can provide, individual or business.

sunman · #6 (**permalink**) 12-24-2009, 05:21 PM

Ralphy,

100% agree with you. Except for what Santa has to deliver to the kids. God Bless You.

Sunman

Merry Christmas

Ralphy · #7 (**permalink**) 12-24-2009, 05:40 PM

Santa will have no problem making it to ATL this year. He does have Raindeer!

Merry Christmas

fastd · #8 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 08:43 AM

For those who think that the health insurance companies profits are "too high": Aren't the profits in the other 34 industries that are more profitable than health insurance companies "too higher" and therefore, shouldn't they be taken over also?

Excaliber · #9 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 09:56 AM

Who's taking over what?

fastd · #10 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 10:16 AM

Why can't you just answer the question? This will ultimately be a government take over of private insurance...

The question put another way so as not to distract you for the real point: if government can assert itself the way that it is doing with health care, why shouldn't it be able do the same with any other industry?

Excaliber · #11 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Because were not a Socialist regime?

There is a big difference between regulation and take over. Regulation is what the Gov does when needed or required, always has, always will.

tcrist · #12 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 10:46 AM

I was really hoping that someone here on CC that is from or still in a socialist country would reply so everyone here could get the answers straight from the horses mouth "so to speak".

sunman · #13 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 11:17 AM

fastd

I have been on government health care all my life. With Tricare I have the best health care that anyone could want. I have a young friend who is a union carpenter. In 15 years he has paid over $75,000 to his union health care "company" (Blue Cross/ Blue Shield). His prescription cap is $5,000 per year. He has just been told he has HepC. Treatment with Interferon costs over $10,000 per year in the USA ( cost is less in Europe). He was denied and was told "Go home and wait to die". They got his money, he's got squat. It is immoral for stockholders to profit from people dieing. Private insurance is good, UNTIL YOU NEED IT. Private insurance "companies" produce nothing and just suck dieing peoples money. Those other companies produce a product we need. IN GOD WE TRUST?, ...BS. Jesus healed for free. HR676 ... HR676... HR676...HR676... HR676

Sunman, born in a military hospital and on government health care all my life. Lived in Germany 7 years. They love there health care, over 200 private companies regulated by the government with access for all.

Excaliber · #14 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 11:41 AM

Wow, I had no idea the drugs cost that much, man I could have been screwed! I took the Hep C treatment 6 or 7 years ago, pills and a shot every three days (it was hell). Got cured though, thank God, literally. I had great insurance at the time that didn't limit the drug dollars. $10 co-pay if I recall correctly.

tcrist · #15 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 12:06 PM

There is another programmer at work that has HEP-C. He took all of the shots and whatever else that told him to take. After about a year they told him that there is nothing else they can do. His body is not doing any better with the treatments. He is off of any medications and is just working and waiting to die. They say he could only last 6 months or 10 years. They have no idea. Oh yeah, Kaiser insurance.

sunman · #16 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 12:13 PM

EXCALIBER,

Your right, Thank God. Glad to hear your OK. Success rate is only about 60%. If he quits work and can prove with 1040 he is below poverty level the drug company Schering Plough will supply free drugs. But then he has no insurance, no money, no home and the doctors wont see him. He is divorcing his wife on paper so if worse comes to worse she will be protected from bankruptcy. There is a 2 or 3 year lookback but for now he is in good health and it takes years to die. Is this the America our women and men are fighting and dieing for?

Sunman

tcrist
On a positive note a new drug is about to come out (Telaprevir) that you take with the interferon for a year and success rate goes up to about 90% even if you failed your first time.

fastd · #17 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 12:24 PM

My question still stands:
If government can assert itself the way that it is doing with health care, why shouldn't it be able do the same with any other industry?

If you think that Obama is aiming for just more regulation and not a single payor system, then you all are just not paying close enough attention.

Excaliber · #18 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 12:28 PM

My answer still stands, what part of it don't you get? We are NOT a Socialist country, which is precisely what this thread is all about. Thanks for asking, see my signature line...

He might have to wait five years after transferring assetts if he goes the Medicaid route, as one option. I THINK the basic requirements for Medicaid are:
Keep your house and furniture if you live in it, doesn't count against assetts.
Keep one car.
Assett's (bank account, savings, 401K, Life Insurance policy, other "monies") limited to $2,000
Tranfer of assett's will be include if they were transferred within the past five years from the time of application.

For Medicaid, you really do have to be really broke. For the regular hard working guy who fall's on hard times, he is in WORSE shape than the very poor. Yup, something is wrong with this insurance picture.

fastd · #19 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 12:36 PM

My question does not include the word "Socialism" - there seems to be a tendency to get caught up in definitions; you have been trying to define socialism for a while; I am trying to get past that; is my question really that complicated?

sunman · #20 (**permalink**) 12-26-2009, 12:39 PM

fastd

It is already interfering in the banks and auto companies. We are not a socialist country but they sure do throw OUR money around.

Read HR676 and you will see it is a tax on everyone for health care for everyone. It is single payer. Everyone is in, the larger the pool the cheaper the insurance.

sunman