Hospitals / Doctors now refusing to take Medicare

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Anthony, the piss ant greedy dentist's afraid to work for real wages for a change? ...

Then don't go to them.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

The lazy whining doctors claiming they aint getting paid enough? I don't know, pick one, what ever works for you.
...

Again, don't go to them. Even better yet, bargain with cash like you did for your cobra.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Doctors in virtually every other industrial country don't seem to have a problem with their pay rate. Where the entire population is covered by a National plan. Maybe there just spoiled here? .

Actually they do. That's why they all come to the US to work, from Canada, Mexico, Russia, Syria, etc.


Just look at the list of the medical staff from any hospital. You'd swear it was the United Nations.

[Anthony]

Excaliber, What ?, No Response ?

It's very unusual not for you to have a response/comeback.

All this talk about dying, you repeatedly stating people are dying left and right due to lack of insurance, medical care, as well as the need to reduce unnecessary medical care by letting people die.

Is it getting a little too personal of a topic for you? Well, I deal with death and dying almost on a daily basis, more like a weekly basis, not like other doctors where it is an everyday issue.

Well, I'll talk about 3 little stories I've witnessed within the last month, about people dying, and medical care.

The first is an old patient of mine, someone who I had treated 3-4 years ago for a specific problem. He came in within the month to catch up on things. Anyways, in 10-11/09, he began having symptoms of nausea and vomitting. He does have medical insurance, touted by some as excellent, state of the art care, Veteran's Administration (VA) care. He doesn't have private insurance, and payed me $50 for the office visit to see me the other day. Anyways, he goes to his primary care doctor, at the VA clinic, with these symptoms a couple months ago. The doctor runs some tests, all normal. Over the next week, the symptoms comtinue, and gradually get worse, so he goes back to his VA doctor who orders more tests and places him on medications. Still, no improvement with his symptoms still getting worse. He goes back to his VA doctor a couple more times for more tests and medications, without any improvement or definitive diagnosis. At this point, over a month later, he is losing weight because of his nausea, inablility to eat, so his VA doctor tells him to instead go to the nearby private hospital ER (remember he doesn't have insurance to cover this). He goes there, they immediately get a CT scan of his abdomen and diagnose him with pancreatic cancer. Now, he's going back to the VA, a different VA center, for cancer treatment. I donlt think he's too worried about his hospital bill, and the hspital is probably not too worried either. How do you think of government run healthcare handled his problem?

Story #2. About two weeks ago, my brother (10 years younger and who has private insurance) woke up sunday night at 3 AM with severe nausea. He doesn't remember much after that, other than laying on the bedroom floor in a semi-conscious state, with crushing chest pain, with his wife and kids crying and screaming around him. Ambulance came, and took him to the closest hospital with cardiac services, where he was diagnosed with a heart attack, and he had 4 stents placed early that AM (5-6 AM) by a cardiologist who emergently came in to help him. He's OK now. He's vowed to stop smoking and to start eating healthy.

Story #3. Another middle-aged patient of mine is now on the kidney transplant list, put on the list over the last month. He was a severe alcoholic, and developed chronic pancreatitis which "burned up" his pancreas, and therefore his insulin making cells, and became a diabetic. He didn't watch/manage his blood sugars well, and went into kidney failure and has been on dialysis for many years, all due to his own actions, and has been on SSI disability for years and Medicare. Now he is on a kidney transplant list. If he lived in any other country (France,etc.), they never would have put him on dialysis, and would have let him die as a complication of his alcoholism, diabetes, and renal failure, and nobody would have questioned it, FACT. Here in the US, everybody with kidney failure has the option of dialysis, and in his case, transplantation as well (you also talk about trransplants almost like you're an expert on the subject- I've done-participated in kidney, heart, lung, and liver transplants myself)

I've worked in several VA hospitals, and I don't remember anything ever done on an emergent basis, especially on a weekend. In the one VA hospital, the lab department shut down every weekend, no matter there were patients in the ICU. Do you think the VA system can provide care like my brother received? Do you think any government run system can provide care like he received? I'm guessing that anybody who's in the same situation as my brother will probably receive the same care no matter their insurance situation. I don't think care like my brother received is the norm in the rest of the world. And, the medical care of patient #3 is definitely not the norm for around the world.

I believe you have good intentions, but there are many variables and unforseen issues with a government run healthcare system, systems that I have alot of experience with already, that it's hard to see any good coming from trying to control the private healthcare system.

If anything needs reform, its the government run healthcare systems already in place. The problem that nobody wants to face is the increasing cost of medical care due to mainly more and more people put on government run healthcare programs, and more and more medical care available to help people. It's going to cost more money no matter what, and there's not much waste in the system. Just because you "think there is", along with Obama, doesn't mean that it is true, and I can tell you it isn't true.

You and many others wish for more government control of our healthcare, thinking it will be alot better. I don't agree.

I hope you and your family do well over the years. If you are unfortunate enough ever to witness first hand a medical crisis in your family, and I hope you never do, you will never know if more really could have been done or not, and with every additional increase in control the government places on healthcare, the less options will be availble for all of us, like what happened to my employee's father who lives in Canada, who was initially denied treatment for his heart attack, but that's another story.

Finally, I brought up "Iatrogenic" causes of death, and you brought up some studies. First, I believe most people die from diseases from their own actions/choices in life, like my brother and patient #1, including heart disease, cancer, etc, and therefore I would say people in general are killing themselves from their own stupidity, not primarily from any medical care needed to treat their own self inflicted disease. Second, I have unfortunately seen many patients die, and it really is very rare that a mistake in medical care results in the death of an individual. Believe what you want to believe.

[Stentor]

A very good post, Anthony.

[Ralphy]

Years ago I was with my dad trying to get him omitted into the VA hospital. They told us we would need to wait till they opened. Either it was 7:00 AM or 8:00 AM. When the time came we entered the office. We were being ignored for some time. Finally I stopped one of the employees and asked. He said we would need to wait a half hour, they were on break! They just came in, how do you get breaks at the start of a shift?

[Ron61]

Anthony,

That was a good post and very enlightening. I hope that your brother does well. I haven't heard a lot of good things about the VA Hospital here as they tend to send people to the one in the Bay Ares, which sends their people up here. I guess they figure by making them drive 250 miles instead of 20 many of them will just not go. One vet from Vietnam that I talked to lived 15 miles from the one in the Bay Area and had some kind of fungus on his feet from over there. He said they sent him up here every time he had to go in to have it treated, but were treating people from up here for the same thing down there. The only military hospital I was ever in was one I Korea so I don't know much about how the VA hospitals work here.

Ron

[DAVID GAGNARD]

They just came in, how do you get breaks at the start of a shift?

Simple, work for the goberment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused :

David

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Anthony,

That was a good post and very enlightening. I hope that your brother does well. I haven't heard a lot of good things about the VA Hospital here as they tend to send people to the one in the Bay Ares, which sends their people up here. I guess they figure by making them drive 250 miles instead of 20 many of them will just not go. One vet from Vietnam that I talked to lived 15 miles from the one in the Bay Area and had some kind of fungus on his feet from over there. He said they sent him up here every time he had to go in to have it treated, but were treating people from up here for the same thing down there. The only military hospital I was ever in was one I Korea so I don't know much about how the VA hospitals work here.

Ron

I got evaced to the USAF hospital in the Philippines. There a great Doc put my foot back together and today all I've got is a tiny bit of a weather toe, otherwise no problems. Thats the plus side
The minus side is that there was a possibility of some disability. But Uncle Sam said I would have to stay in service for 6 to 9 months past my discharge date for the case and amount of disability to be decided. OR I could sign off on any disability claim and get out 5 months early. I knew I was OK so I took my exit. What about others less fortunate? Went to the VA a couple of years ago, looking for drug coverage only. Applied for coverage, rejected! No wound related problems and I made too much money and owned too much property. I had no idea I was so well to do. Sure don't remember money and/or property being part of the original deal though. But who remembers much about the 60's.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Dan40

I got evaced to the USAF hospital in the Philippines. There a great Doc put my foot back together and today all I've got is a tiny bit of a weather toe, otherwise no problems. Thats the plus side
The minus side is that there was a possibility of some disability. But Uncle Sam said I would have to stay in service for 6 to 9 months past my discharge date for the case and amount of disability to be decided. OR I could sign off on any disability claim and get out 5 months early. I knew I was OK so I took my exit. What about others less fortunate? Went to the VA a couple of years ago, looking for drug coverage only. Applied for coverage, rejected! No wound related problems and I made too much money and owned too much property. I had no idea I was so well to do. Sure don't remember money and/or property being part of the original deal though. But who remembers much about the 60's.

I don't know about the money being part of it, but I did the VA thing (much later than you though) and I get a monthly check for my disability rating. I had to pay back the disability that the Navy gave me, and that took about 10 years of the VA checks before I started getting my checks. Not a whole lot ($123/month) but it is at least an acknowledgment of my injuries.

[392cobra]

[Excaliber]

I keep waiting for someone to mention there is no Government run health plan being discussed in the current health bill. Which may or may not even pass.

OK, with the out of the way, proceed with our regular program, Government health plan bashing.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I keep waiting for someone to mention there is no Government run health plan being discussed in the current health bill. Which may or may not even pass.

OK, with the out of the way, proceed with our regular program, Government health plan bashing.

Part of what you want to call a non-Government health INSURANCE plan, takes away the insurance industry's ability to underwrite policies. Without underwriting, the insurance industry becomes the administrators of the De Facto Government health insurance plan.
Presently, insurance is REGULATED by each state, but insurance companies CAN underwrite policies [Which happens to be 100% necessary to produce an affordable product].
Under obummer "care," the insurance industry becomes CONTROLLED, by the Federal Government, thereby making the entire health and insurance industry a "Government Plan!" The "Government Option talk was a smokescreen to hide the reality of this enormous boondoggle!

And what is your guess? For every one societal parasite that gets insurance coverage, how many PAYING Seniors will loose access to health CARE? As Doctors and Hospitals refuse to accept lower and lower reimbursement.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I keep waiting for someone to mention there is no Government run health plan being discussed in the current health bill. Which may or may not even pass.

OK, with the out of the way, proceed with our regular program, Government health plan bashing.

You may cal it Goverment health plan bashing if you like, I call it history...................

Look at the goverment's history of running ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Postal Service
Social Security Administration
VA Hospitals
Medicare/Medicade
The welfare system we now have.......
What do they all have in common????? Broke or going broke!!!!!!!!!

Why is the postal system broke and UPS is not??????????
Answer: because the goverment runs the postal system and not UPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Past history proves the goverment will not be able to run health care 1/2 as good as the private sector......

Look at the other countries that have goverment run health care (ie Canada/England), 2 to 3 months waiting for an x-ray for your broken leg,same for most other ailments, lack of doctors/nurses to staff the hospitals......wondery why????? why should anyone want to become a doctor to work for the goverment making 60 grand a year after 12 years and thousands of thousands of dollars in schooling????? same goes for nurses.........

Did you ever wonder why 1/2 or more of the doctors in any hospital in America are from a foreign country?????????? Go ask anyone of them why they practise medicine in America and not in their homeland, I think you'll have your answer.........

What part of all of this do you not understand or comprehend?????????

David

[Excaliber]

Look at the goverment's history of running ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blah, blah , blah, like I said, back to Government bashing, it's what we do best.

Wages are down and REMAIN down for the bulk of the country. Business' are tightening their belts, sharpening their pencils, cutting costs. Health care facilities, doctors, hospital's are not immune to this trend. Figure out how to do it or like any business, face the inevitable consequences.

Eventually services and procedures will have to be cut. Waiting times will increase, it WILL happen, it's reality. It's the ONLY way to cut the ever rising costs. What part of that do you not understand or comprehend?

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Blah, blah , blah, like I said, back to Government bashing, it's what we do best.

Wages are down and REMAIN down for the bulk of the country. Business' are tightening their belts, sharpening their pencils, cutting costs. Health care facilities, doctors, hospital's are not immune to this trend. Figure out how to do it or like any business, face the inevitable consequences.

Eventually services and procedures will have to be cut. Waiting times will increase, it WILL happen, it's reality. It's the ONLY way to cut the ever rising costs. What part of that do you not understand or comprehend?

No comment on my last post?

Government bashing? Not only is it FULLY DESERVED, we don't do enough of it. But we are starting to do it better and better causing liberals to sprout more and more utter nonsense.
Right now the country is taking little baby steps back towards a Democratic Republic and the liberal socialists are greatly, near incoherently, upset.
Will the people win or will the socialists win? Too early to call!

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Anthony,

That was a good post and very enlightening. I hope that your brother does well.

Thank you. He's doing fine, but feeling very tired now, maybe from quitting smoking or the Beta-Blocker medication, nicotine withdrawls, I don't know, but I think he is going to be fine, just need some fine tuning.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I keep waiting for someone to mention there is no Government run health plan being discussed in the current health bill. Which may or may not even pass.

OK, with the out of the way, proceed with our regular program, Government health plan bashing.

In some extent, all of the current private healthcare plans are already government controlled. Basically, most, if not all, insurance carriers base their reimbursement rates to doctors and hospitals from the Medicare mandated reimbursement rates. Medicare has a "formula" to determine what each medical service is "worth" , to cover expenses and provide a "reasonable" profit, as determined by them, and all the insurance carriers are quick to jump on it, as they use this information as "ammunition" to justify their reimbursement rates. Medicare also determines which procedures are medically reasonable and necessary, again setting the standard for private insurance carriers to base their plans from. So, you see, the government for the most part sets the playing field already for everybody, insurance companies, doctors and hospitals. There however are some differences between insurance plans such as deductables, co-pays, some covered services, etc, but again, most of the plan is based off of Medicare standards.

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Blah, blah , blah, like I said, back to Government bashing, it's what we do best.

Wages are down and REMAIN down for the bulk of the country. Business' are tightening their belts, sharpening their pencils, cutting costs. Health care facilities, doctors, hospital's are not immune to this trend. Figure out how to do it or like any business, face the inevitable consequences.

Eventually services and procedures will have to be cut. Waiting times will increase, it WILL happen, it's reality. It's the ONLY way to cut the ever rising costs. What part of that do you not understand or comprehend?

The main difference between the business of healthcare and the rest of the economy is that reimbursement rates (charges) are determined by the government, and not from supply and demand. As utility costs, rental costs, supply costs go up, medical providers cannot increase their reimbursements at all, as again, its government controlled. Unlike the dentist or veterinarian who can set their own charges, based on supply and demand, Hospitals and Doctors ( except plastic surgeons and opthmologists performing radial keratotomies,etc who can set their own charges) have to agree to accept whatever Medicare deems to be reasonable. The congress cuts pay to medical providers yet they give themselves raises. I believe that's why the Mayo clinic has decided to stop accepting medicare patients in Az, because of reduced reimbursements. I believe they are "testing the waters" to see how much this move will affect their business, bottom line, because medicare care is really a business afterall. If this test proves not to hurt the bottom line, then they may do the same at other clinics. It's all about money, like you said in the last paragraph. If the government cuts the money, there will be less sevices.

[csx4910]

Contrary to what the liberals would have us beelive, I dont recall anywhere in the consitution where it says Health care is one our our rights. Of those 20 Million people, it is estimated that at least 1/2 can afford health care but choose not to have it. Those would include(however Naive) those younger adults under the age of 30 in good health that dont want to pay for health care. This is America, isnt it? Shouldn't they have the right to choose what they feel is best for themselves, not the government? If Obama has his way, he wants everyone to let the government tell them what is best for them. I for one don't like the government telling me what is best for me. I already pay 100% of my employees health insurance and yet they plan on increasing taxes on business and make me also pay for others???

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by csx4910

Contrary to what the liberals would have us beelive, I dont recall anywhere in the consitution where it says Health care is one our our rights. Of those 20 Million people, it is estimated that at least 1/2 can afford health care but choose not to have it. Those would include(however Naive) those younger adults under the age of 30 in good health that dont want to pay for health care. This is America, isnt it? Shouldn't they have the right to choose what they feel is best for themselves, not the government? If Obama has his way, he wants everyone to let the government tell them what is best for them. I for one don't like the government telling me what is best for me. I already pay 100% of my employees health insurance and yet they plan on increasing taxes on business and make me also pay for others???

Ernie,

Please post the section of the Constitution that says the president and Congress can ignore the people and take over whenever they feel like it. I must have missed that in my reading.

Ron

[Excaliber]

Some posts aren't even worth commenting on...

The ever rising health care costs cannot be sustained, thats a fact. There are no valid options expressed by the Republicans to control it, thats a fact. All we are left with are whino's (under a bridge, pounding their drums).

[Ron61]

And pray tell, what valid options have Obama and his gang put forth. I hope you don't mean that POS stack of paper they try to pass off as Health Care.

Ron

[Excaliber]

Bush tried and failed to reform health care, as have many before him. We have only two options.

Do SOMETHING! Or continue to sit on it and wait for it to blow up. "Tweaking" is not an option, it will only delay the inevitable.