Obama, Jobs to be # 1 Priority

[Ron61]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Ron, you mean Medicaid I think? Medicare is essentially welfare (those who never worked a day in their life, have less than $2,000 in asessts, etc.) I don't know a lot about either program, just the basics. As I understand Medicare you don't pay for anything, you just can't HAVE anything (asessets wise).

Ernie,

Anyone that worked and paid into Social Security has Medicare if they want it. Part A which covers hospital and major services is free if you PAID in while working. My checks used to almost double in take home pay in June when I would have my full years Social Security paid in. I have my Medicare Part A Health Insurance card right in front of me. Also if you would go read some of that so called Health Care Bill, it accepts Medicare as a legitimate coverage and you don't have to buy more. Look under Section 5000, Individual Requirements or whatever it is, Subsection f.

Ron

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Ron61

Well looks like the election has caused some re-thinking of the priorities in the National Zoo.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100121/..._obama_economy

Ron

There's plenty to criticize about Obama, and I truly wish Kennedy had lost that seat while he was still alive, but comments like the above hint at the REal problem some people have with Obama. I personally don't think he is as great as he thinks he is, but I must say that when I see these types of remarks, I really enjoy the fact that you have to endure the indignity of having the reality that he is your president stuck firmly up your angry old a$$.
And it is for that reason I will laugh out loud if he gets reelected in 2012.

[Buzz]

oops - sorry Ron (computerworks). I didn't see your "cool it" warning before I hit the send button or I would have kept my observation to myself.

[Ron61]

No sweat Buzz, I was just saying it tongue in cheek. I have always thought that getting the economy back into place and jobs were more important right now than that boondoggle of a Health Care Bill.

Ron

[computerworks]

no sweat... it was meant for the other guys to reel it in a bit.

[Excaliber]

Got it boss... gonna need a winch, but I'll get-r-done.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I keep saying it, thread after thread and it's clear most of you folks only hear what you want to hear.

Those who have "never worked a day in their life" ALREADY HAVE HEALTH CARE. It's called MEDICARE.

WHAT THE HECK IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU PEOPLE THAT YOU DON'T GET THAT?

Ernie--Mr. health care maven--I think you were referring to Medicaid, not Medicare. Medicaid is for the poor; Medicare is for those aged 65 and older.

[Excaliber]

Indeed, Medicaid (or the sitnkin' WELFARE version of Govmunt services). An excellent example of what happens you get frustrated plowing the same ground over and over and over...

Those pesky poor and welfare mothers are covered already, bottom line, which has squat to do with any health care reform for the rest planet earth. So please, will you guys quit whining about having to cover the welfare Mom's out of your pocket. You already do and there's nothing you can do about it!

[csx4910]

I just found out part the $71 million dollars the state of Arizona is cutting out of the medicaid fund is discontinuing Hospice as a benefit for those on Medicaid. Apparently they dont think they deserve to pass away with dignity and support like eveyrone else. Unfortunetly we have a bad Republican governor(brewer) that is also still dealing with the problems of our really bad democratic governor(Napolitano) We just got rid of. I have been in Arizona 30 years and they havent had a good governor yet(republican or democrat)

[Excaliber]

Well that is troubling! If anything we should be INCREASING hospice care and counseling the dying and their families about using it. Versus, consuming extraordinary resources to preserve life for another "two weeks" for an alzhiemer patient who doesn't have a clue WHY you are sticking them with needles and messing with them in general. You know you just might be scaring the crap out of them with all those "tests". Maybe, just maybe, it would be more humane to simply let them pass on in peace, in a hospice, surrounded by caring and loving people and a family that understands WHY it is in the patients best interest to be there!

But NOOOOO, here comes Palin screaming about "death squads", she is SUCH an idiot!!!

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Well that is troubling! If anything we should be INCREASING hospice care and counseling the dying and their families about using it. Versus, consuming extraordinary resources to preserve life for another "two weeks" for an alzhiemer patient who doesn't have a clue WHY you are sticking them with needles and messing with them in general. You know you just might be scaring the crap out of them with all those "tests". Maybe, just maybe, it would be more humane to simply let them pass on in peace, in a hospice, surrounded by caring and loving people and a family that understands WHY it is in the patients best interest to be there!

But NOOOOO, here comes Palin screaming about "death squads", she is SUCH an idiot!!!

Ernie, Your first para, I can agree with. In a disaster we have Triage to get care but in normal life, no triage once care starts.

Your second para, If you liberals had not dedicated half your energies to bashing Palin, she would have faded away by now. The left is creating her popularity. People have to think, "If the liberals hate and fear her that much, there must be something to her!" Had you libs. ignored her, the 15 minutes of fame would have been long over.

[Excaliber]

I think she did serious harm to the health care discussion with her death squad comments. A real shame that issue was dropped like a hot potato shortly after it was bad mouthed.

Now, as the contemplation and discussion seems to be settling down to issues "we" can all agree on I'd sure like to see this one back on the table. Yeah, I have a personal stake in it. I saw the way my Dad was treated by the "system" when his death was imminent. The doctors all but refused to leave him alone, he just wanted to die in peace and they managed to screw up his last few weeks with one "test" and "extra ordinary" measure after another. Now, Dad's take on it was that they were using HIM to make money for themselves by billing insurance. Whether that is true or not is beside the point. HE felt that way and it pissed him off, I felt like he went to his end angry at the doctors for not listenting and THAT pissed ME off.

My Mother simply stayed home when her time came, refused to let anybody take her anywhere. She knew what happened to Dad. She just quit taking her medication and passed on rather peacfully, at home.

[SPF2245]

Ex, I'm an idiot for having read the current Bill because nothing in it sells me on how I can expect more from this plan other then more out of pocket expenses. Do I believe this bill will offer any better service to the majority of America then they already get, um, no. Am I selfish, yes. Am I a hard working person who will watch his out of pocket expenses double (per the current formulas), yes. Am I foolish in believing this will lower costs for me or increase my individual care received at the hospital...YES.

So, yes. I am an idiot, because I didn't believe either party, read the actual Bill (which is painful for an idiot) and came up with my own conclusions.

And with that, I'm out of this thread. I would like to be able to login again this week. Have a good weekend.

[Excaliber]

Do I believe this bill will offer any better service to the majority of America then they already get, um, no.

Your right!
This was never about the majority, it's about the minority. Those folks with inadequate coverage. There is a very good reason our system is based on law instead of "mob rule", or the "majority" as some might call them. It's a fair shake for everybody, regardless of what the mob says or wants to do.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Your right!
This was never about the majority, it's about the minority. Those folks with inadequate coverage. There is a very good reason our system is based on law instead of "mob rule", or the "majority" as some might call them. It's a fair shake for everybody, regardless of what the mob says or wants to do.

So after 4000+ pages of waste paper being created, only 20 million of the supposed 47 million get coverage. So 27 million get thrown under the bus in order to pass a bad bill. This is good Government? If the bill was good and the Democrats had courage of their convictions, they would fight to cover all. Instead they try to pass a bad bill and then sneak in more when no one is looking. And they think the "majority" won't hate what they're doing?

And Ernie, its only about the minority when the majority is apathetic. When awake and paying attention, as the majority are now, its is all about the majority. Its not a 'mob,' its the United States of America.

[Excaliber]

I don't know the numbers because they are constantly challenged around here. Is it 20 or 47 million this week? The number seems to vary to fit whatever argument is convenient at the time.

Depending on which version of the bill your talking about coverage would be extended to 90 or 95% of what ever the current popular number may be for radical right wingers.

...around here, it's most definitely a "mob". Exhibiting classic mob behaviour.

[Dan40]

The liberals invented, at various times, the numbers 45 million, 46 million, and 47 million in need of heath care, not coverage. Only later did they change to health insurance coverage. (And insurance and CARE are NOT the same thing in any way) But I digress. At no time and in no way did they try to prove that number, even tho it changed back and forth, the public was supposed to believe it [whatever number it was that day] was accurate. I wonder why there is doubt?
Then at various times, the liberals have claimed that, "about half," 23 million, or 20 million would acquire insurance coverage under one or another of the proposed bills.
So you can see the dilemma facing us poor Independent Conservatives about accurate numbers. Not being privy to the intentions of the liars of the first part, we can only guess at which invented numbers to cite.
So oh learned non-mob one, kindly enlighten us as to the proven number in need of insurance, and the proven number to be covered by the House bill and the same for the Senate bill.
Dimwitted and skeptical as we are, you will need to post links to your numerical proofs, else wise we shall remain lost in the wilderness so to speak.


Facts are such pesky critters, aren't they!

[Excaliber]

Let's keep it simple, it's a really BIG number, see the 90 to 95% part for an answer to your question.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Let's keep it simple, it's a really BIG number, see the 90 to 95% part for an answer to your question.

FACTS would help your case if it was helpable. Your evasiveness and resorting to irrelevant and misguided philosophies reveals that you have no actual position that is defensible.

So your total refusal to engage in any factual discourse encourages the idea that you know and accept that the liberals lied about the 45, 46, or 47 million in need of health care. And that 50%, or 23 million, or 20 million would receive health care under one of the new bills is also figments of the liberal imagination. And when they suddenly switched wording from CARE to INSURANCE, the lie was revealed for all the world to see.

If you really want to see mob rule, look up the club wielding, Black Panthers from ACORN, intimidating voters at the polling places.

That IS mob rule.

Debunking Utopian liberal philosophies with facts is not mob rule.

The sad fact [for you] that Liberals are in a minority and diminishing in numbers does not in any way mean that the Independent/ Conservative MAJORITY a mob.

[philminotti]

Ernie,

Just need to correct an error... Medicare is government insurance for those over 65. Working people pay into it. As a physician, I accept Medicare. Medicaid is welfare. Most private physicians (me included) do not take Medicaid. Medicaid wouldn't cover the cost of the phone call to schedule their appointment, never mind the actual care rendered. And that's a fact.

phil