Dear Mr. President from Rush Limbaugh

[392cobra]

If union workers were able to make a few quaility products at a fair price I would .

[Jamo]

Yup...too bad unions sucked the blood right out of American industrial might by protecting substandard work performance, assinine wages and benefits and indifference to the country.

Let's not forget...as recently as late 2008 when they refused to make reasonable concessions (delaying increases with no actual cut in pay) or invalidate the provisions requiring continuation of pay after a layoff. This led directly to the failures of GM and Chrysler, and the expanded subindustries, and resulted in millions more being laid off from their jobs. So the rest of us have to pay the UAW via bailouts.

They are a cancer upon this nation.

[Wes Tausend]

...

Yup...too bad corporate boards sucked the blood right out of American industrial might by protecting substandard management performance, assinine salaries and bonuses and indifference to the country.

Let's not forget...as recently as late 2008 when they refused to make reasonable concessions (delaying increases with no actual cut in pay) or invalidate the provisions requiring continuation of bonuses after getting caught. This led directly to the failures of GM and Chrysler, and the expanded subindustries, and resulted in millions more being laid off from their jobs. So the rest of us have to pay Wallstreet via bailouts. All perfectly legal in a atmosphere of runaway Capitalism, because we let it happen.

They are a cancer upon this nation.

Wes

[Jamo]

Cute, Wes.

...but a mere trickle compared to the effects of union entitlement socialism. Shocking to see a few making millions each...the stuff of glorious soundbites to stir the masses. Nothing like the drag of billions of dollars wasted on union-controlled benefit trusts, over-staffing and dead weight labor rolls.

It's the same reason our government costs so much to operate.

Last week, for the first time, unionized public employees outnumbered the private sector.

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Cute, Wes.

...but a mere trickle compared to the effects of union entitlement socialism. Shocking to see a few making millions each...the stuff of glorious soundbites to stir the masses. Nothing like the drag of billions of dollars wasted on union-controlled benefit trusts, over-staffing and dead weight labor rolls.

It's the same reason our government costs so much to operate.

Last week, for the first time, unionized public employees outnumbered the private sector.

The "cute" wears off quick, even as it points out greed isn't proprietary.

The "mere trickle" seems to be doing pretty well, as in more like Trickle Down - Hemorrhage Up. Think you're right, the CEO salary Millions isn't much compared to the Trillions that just flushed their way. But it's just the tip of the iceberg. Stocks, hidden from view, do the most damage. Just like a casino, the money is never lost; somebody else wins (won) it.

If the image shows up:

stubborn liberal picture

More at Net worth and financial wealth distribution in the U.S. in 2007

Entitlements? For the guys that do all the work and create all the wealth? I'm shocked and appalled. Who do they think they are??

Not much has changed in the last 5000 years, but there is always hope.
Golden Rule: Those with the gold make the rules to make the gold.
Must be a new Darwin thing. Paper has become mightier than the sword and the meek get ruled....

Wes

...

[Excaliber]

unionized public employees outnumbered the private sector.

Wow, is unemployment THAT bad or is Government THAT big!

[Jamo]

Actually, a bit of both...but mostly the latter. Unions have been increasing their public sector hold for the past few decades...much easier for them to force membership and secure dues deductions. I can't think of a better example of waste than the way our government works, can you?

[Jamo]

Wes, we respect your right to live the rest of your days with union blood running through your veins as it systematically socializes mental perceptions.

We're trying save the next generation...you know, the ones who have rejected unionization overwhemingly because they don't see the value.

Pretty bad when you're afraid of the secret ballot election process (The Soviet General Assembly didn't like it either), but I digress.

[Wes Tausend]

...

Finally free again. The nearly useless, lazy stockholders have been working me to the bone. But they gotta eat too, I guess. Eat well, at that, with over half the wealth and gaining. America's gone from where hard work made most of the money, to where money makes most of the money. Wonder how long that will last?

Originally Posted by Jamo

Wes, we respect your right to live the rest of your days with union blood running through your veins as it systematically socializes mental perceptions.
Thanks, Jamo, from the bottom of my idealist heart. Don't ever give up on the slim chance that I am wrong, and the world truly functions better Darwinist, dog-eat-dog, survival only of the fittest.

We're trying save the next generation...you know, the ones who have rejected unionization overwhemingly because they don't see the value.
Us too. All that is necessary for the triumph of total corporate solidarity is that good kids do nothing.

Pretty bad when you're afraid of the secret ballot election process (The Soviet General Assembly didn't like it either), but I digress.
Guess it works both ways. Everytime we announce planned elections, we run into mysterious obstacles and serious intimidation, almost like the thwarts from the Soviet General Assembly stories.

Cardcheck. Nice try on our part. Stockholders(bourgeoisie)=1:Proletariat=0. Figures, huh?

Wes

...

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

...

Finally free again. The nearly useless, lazy stockholders have been working me to the bone. But they gotta eat too, I guess. Eat well, at that, with over half the wealth and gaining. America's gone from where hard work made most of the money, to where money makes most of the money. Wonder how long that will last?



Wes

...

Exactly WHEN was it that hard work made most of the money? It wasn't in the last 500 years.

Money has made the most money since money was invented.

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Dan40

Exactly WHEN was it that hard work made most of the money? It wasn't in the last 500 years.

Money has made the most money since money was invented.

Might have me there, Dan. Are you saying printed money and wealth aren't the same thing?

I kinda thought hard work created all the wealth, leastways up to now.

Wes

...

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

Might have me there, Dan. Are you saying printed money and wealth aren't the same thing?

I kinda thought hard work created all the wealth, leastways up to now.

Wes

...

Pick anybody and you can make the same case as for labor.

Salesman, nothing gets made by labor or any money made until a salesman sells it.

Bookkeepers, no money is made until they total it up.

Advertisers, no money is made until they tell people about the product.

Designers, no money is made until they design a desirable product.

On and on, everybody has a claim, including the CEO's.

You could also make a very strong case that labor is the most expensive and most easily replaced cog in the marketing wheel.

[Jamo]

Wes...what the hell kind of farming are you talking about?

As Dan said, the farmer (even the smallest one) is the CEO of an operation that:

...must buy seed, transplants or grafts from someone, which means companies like Monsanto or Dow and everything involved with their seed products have to compete for the business, or nurseries who grow and sell live transplants or the farm labor contractors who cut wood and utlize their skills in making successful grafts.

...must rely on transportation providers to bring them their raw materials, from the growing stock noted above to the fuel needed to operate farm machinery to packaging materials to prepare the farmer's products to market...and transportation to get the farm products to market, farmers' markets notwithstanding (small percentages).

...must rely on various labor sources to grow and cultivate and harvest the product...tractor drivers, irrigators, thin/hoe and/or contractors with the crews and equipment to harvest and pack the farm products.

...must rely on sales staff or outside brokers to sell the farm product.

...must rely on banking institutions to loan the monies needed to even plant the crops, let alone for maintaining or replacing farm equipment.

...must rely on administrative staff or outside services to run the payrolls, invoice for the products, keep track of safety and human resource trainings, etc.

In other words, just what damn planet are you talking about where farmers do everything for themselves without affecting other businesses or relying on investments in order to farm?

Before one damn seed is stuck in the ground...you need money. Hell, you can't even buy sh!t (aka manure) without money.

Yes, labor is an essential component, but it is simply one link in the chain.

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Wes...what the hell kind of farming are you talking about?

As Dan said, the farmer (even the smallest one) is the CEO of an operation that:

...must buy seed, transplants or grafts from someone, which means companies like Monsanto or Dow and everything involved with their seed products have to compete for the business, or nurseries who grow and sell live transplants or the farm labor contractors who cut wood and utlize their skills in making successful grafts.

...must rely on transportation providers to bring them their raw materials, from the growing stock noted above to the fuel needed to operate farm machinery to packaging materials to prepare the farmer's products to market...and transportation to get the farm products to market, farmers' markets notwithstanding (small percentages).

...must rely on various labor sources to grow and cultivate and harvest the product...tractor drivers, irrigators, thin/hoe and/or contractors with the crews and equipment to harvest and pack the farm products.

...must rely on sales staff or outside brokers to sell the farm product.

...must rely on banking institutions to loan the monies needed to even plant the crops, let alone for maintaining or replacing farm equipment.

...must rely on administrative staff or outside services to run the payrolls, invoice for the products, keep track of safety and human resource trainings, etc.

In other words, just what damn planet are you talking about where farmers do everything for themselves without affecting other businesses or relying on investments in order to farm?

Before one damn seed is stuck in the ground...you need money. Hell, you can't even buy sh!t (aka manure) without money.

Yes, labor is an essential component, but it is simply one link in the chain.

Jamo,

Well, I was talking about basic farming roots (pardon the pun ).

You are getting more complicated and cluttering up the logical simplicity of my Reductionism here.

The idea is that one can fathom how a complicated machine works by looking at it in its simplest form and applying these basic principles to all higher layers.

Labor is an essential component, but it is simply one link in the chain.

Reduced to bare bones, the other components (all support) are not essential in the most basic sense. Without labor, there is no chain. No wealth. Ever. Only labor, and labor alone, creates wealth or the foundation for a more complicated arrangement. All live off the one carrot that labor produces. There are never more carrots that field support pulls outa their ...um, you know.

=========

Boat rowing:
Men swim by themselves. Somebody notices logs floating by and invents a boat. Another guy, 1st stockholder, provides the investment in time to build it. They now swim together out of the cold, cold water. Stockholder favors one rower to call cadence and steer. Capitalism runs amuck. Stockholder buys government guy to restrict any rowers from building competitive boats and rides for free for a lifetime.

======

Everybody picks their own berries at the community berry patch in spirit of socialism where everybody has equal opportunity. First entrepreneur privatizes the patch by simple declaration. Capitalism is born. Skims everybodies efforts by charging pickers part of picked berries thereafter. Enforces declaration by hiring govenment goon for fractional share of berries. Capitalism runs amuck. Doesn't do a lick of real work ever, and has bigger piece of the berry pie than anyone for a lifetime.

==========

I agree, nobody ever said the world was fair. Ninety-nine percent of the species that ever lived are now extinct. It's a dog-eat-dog world out there. And so the class struggle continues.

Wes

...

[Jamo]

Wes, my friend, let me first say that I have the utmost respect for you.

However, you are completely full of sh!t, which may be the only thing you can conceptually contribute to the advancement of farming.

[jolsen42]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Wes, my friend, let me first say that I have the utmost respect for you.

However, you are completely full of sh!t, which may be the only thing you can conceptually contribute to the advancement of farming.

That is so funny that I'm laughing so hard I'm crying.
John O

[Dan40]

Labors future:

Saw a show about Mueller's pasta. They have a factory that covers many acres. Don't remember the number but remember thinking that is really huge.

Once their pasta was made in that factory by thousands of workers. Today they turn out more pasta and more consistent products than ever before. I'm not saying that they have an outstanding product. I don't think it ever was anything but a mass market product. I don't mean it is a bad product either.

The point is, today that huge factory has ZERO workers on the floor. Not a single one. A dozen people monitor the computers, otherwise it is 100% machines. From raw materials coming in one end and boxed and packed for shipment finished products out the other, all machines.

Businesses exist to make money, they have no other purpose. They have labor only because it is necessary to make money. But labor is more expensive and causes more breakdowns than machines. Thus, whenever possible labor is replaced by machines. Because Businesses exist to make money!

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Wes, my friend, let me first say that I have the utmost respect for you.

However, you are completely full of sh!t, which may be the only thing you can conceptually contribute to the advancement of farming.

What the heck? I swear, this thread will die without me. Not that it don't deserve it.

But there might be a little entertainment value left in it.

Jamo, thanks for the kudos. Mutual, my friend. And since we are posting only the unvarnished asoblute truth here, I got no choice but to admit that you are absolutely correct about me being full of sh!t. I know it, you know it, Fred knows it, we all know it.

And from that postulation, we might derive that I, and I alone, come closest to pulling the proverbial carrot of of my azz, since only I have all the ingredients.
But that is not entirely true.
Let me point out: Since we are all just as full of sh!t, carrots would thrive in this Lounge and I think we should get some bunnies.

It ain't that important as long as we can solve world philosophy problems better than serious politicians; politicians that are anal retentive, and would willingly stunt the growth of said carrots and damage the economy by holding back.

======

Originally Posted by Anthony

"hire other less capable people "?

Anthony, I am certainly not one of those employees.

I'm better at the mechanical aspect of railroading than the upper brass ever dreamed of being and I can prove it. But it is not their fault. They are all rail-inexperienced beancounters, every one of them, and only good at manipulating money and stocks.

Now if they let me handle the company checking account, then I might be out-classed. Like I said, might. I would like to try it, it is a secret desire of mine. I, and I alone, know how to make the coal pay me to haul itself and I should patent the idea and ride free thereafter.

And , yes, it is a great thread, heartwarming during a cold, claustrophobic winter, really.

=======

Originally Posted by Dan40

But labor is more expensive and causes more breakdowns than machines.

Dan, as different business race to be laborless, who in the heck are they going to sell the macaroni to, their own investors? Are we to become a nation of indolent stockholders? Can we survive without any labor at all?

It will be like playing Monopoly. Nearly pure Capitalism. Maybe a little continued Socialism to let everybody keep going around Go after they are bankrupt. No sense owning Park Place if there is nothing left to collect. $200 is better than nothing. Sounds boring though.

Nations don't fail without ...until they have first failed within. Or something like that.

Wes

...

[392cobra]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

Jamo, thanks for the kudos. Mutual, my friend. And since we are posting only the unvarnished asoblute truth here, I got no choice but to admit that you are absolutely correct about me being full of sh!t. I know it, you know it, Fred knows it, we all know it.
Wes
...

Yeah,I know it Wes.

In my case though,it takes one to know one.

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by Wes Tausend

What the heck? I swear, this thread will die without me. Not that it don't deserve it.

But there might be a little entertainment value left in it.

Jamo, thanks for the kudos. Mutual, my friend. And since we are posting only the unvarnished asoblute truth here, I got no choice but to admit that you are absolutely correct about me being full of sh!t. I know it, you know it, Fred knows it, we all know it.

And from that postulation, we might derive that I, and I alone, come closest to pulling the proverbial carrot of of my azz, since only I have all the ingredients.
But that is not entirely true.
Let me point out: Since we are all just as full of sh!t, carrots would thrive in this Lounge and I think we should get some bunnies.

It ain't that important as long as we can solve world philosophy problems better than serious politicians; politicians that are anal retentive, and would willingly stunt the growth of said carrots and damage the economy by holding back.

======


Anthony, I am certainly not one of those employees.

I'm better at the mechanical aspect of railroading than the upper brass ever dreamed of being and I can prove it. But it is not their fault. They are all rail-inexperienced beancounters, every one of them, and only good at manipulating money and stocks.

Now if they let me handle the company checking account, then I might be out-classed. Like I said, might. I would like to try it, it is a secret desire of mine. I, and I alone, know how to make the coal pay me to haul itself and I should patent the idea and ride free thereafter.

And , yes, it is a great thread, heartwarming during a cold, claustrophobic winter, really.

=======



Dan, as different business race to be laborless, who in the heck are they going to sell the macaroni to, their own investors? Are we to become a nation of indolent stockholders? Can we survive without any labor at all?
It will be like playing Monopoly. Nearly pure Capitalism. Maybe a little continued Socialism to let everybody keep going around Go after they are bankrupt. No sense owning Park Place if there is nothing left to collect. $200 is better than nothing. Sounds boring though.

Nations don't fail without ...until they have first failed within. Or something like that.

Wes

...

Dan, as different business race to be laborless, who in the heck are they going to sell the macaroni to, their own investors? Are we to become a nation of indolent stockholders? Can we survive without any labor at all?

They will 'sell' to those living off the all giving Govt.

How that will work is beyond me, but liberals seem convinced it is a viable plan!