No Amnesty part 2

[VRM]

Jamo,
What about me saying that I agree with you regarding a Fed pic ID being a good idea do you disagree with?

I also agree that the I-9 is a problem as it currently is used, and I have no problem changing it. It certainly is way too open-ended as it is now. Hell, given a couple of days I could forge half the docs in columns B and C, and I'm only an amateur!

I also agree that a lot of people would fight a thumbprint (I am proposing only 1 digit - not a full set). And yes, it would be a pain in the ass for a farm, but not nearly so much for cleaning crews, packers/shippers, and construction workers (where the bulk of my experience with illegals comes from). Chain of evidence is not a problem as it is not actually evidence, merely records. The print would only be used to possibly indicate a situation that could be investigated further. The fingerprint could even serve as a psychological deterent to illegals. However, I fully admit that I had not considered your situation and experience regarding farms and the quantity of people hired at a single time. Obviously, you have not considered mine either.

You say that a photo SS card will be ample proof. Those could also be forged. There is a market right now for fake SS cards. If we go to photo SS cards there will be a market for fakes of those as well. Obviously, they will be a lot tougher to fake than the SS cards currently available. However, the fact that forgeries will happen should not deter us from going ahead with it anyway. But we should make every effort to pack as much anti-copy protection into a new SS card at the first issue. Simply checking the number, as you mentioned, is not enough of a safeguard. Other metrics need to be cross-referenced to that number in order to verify that the person with the card is actually the person assigned to that card. Perhaps if the GOP had made this an issue a few years ago they would have been able to push it through by waking up the public about this (as they are now) and scaring the DNC Congresscritters. They didn't - so now we are stuck with a DNC Congress doing what it wants. I know as well as you do that under them it simply will not happen.

Regarding the SSA hacking - I have mentioned GAO reports that say it is very possible (and some reports may even mention actual SSA hacks - I have only read a couple of the reports), and also referenced a specific article that says it has happened, but under what circumstances we do not know. You say it has not happened under IMAGE, fine, please cite your source. Otherwise, given the information that we have the probability that it happend under IMAGE is identical to it not happening under IMAGE.

I have dumbed down my posts to you as well. I don't understand how you can think that by increasing access to the SSA DB that you also don't increase the risk of hacking. By your reference to hacking not happening under IMAGE before you seem to think that therefore IMAGE is safe for all to use.

Ever do probability math? I'm going to keep this simple even though there are more variables than just the ones I am going to mention here.
Suppose you have 100 balls in a jar. 5 of those balls are white and the other 95 are black. The white balls represent the access points to the SSA DB, including those through IMAGE. Now you (the hacker) reach in blindfolded an pick out a ball. What are the chances of you pulling a white one? Now, imagine that the situation is switched, and the black balls represent access to the SSA DB. What is your chance of pulling a black ball?

The trophy hackers have probably already hacked the SSA DB. I'm not really worried about them. The ones looking for info/money/whatever are going to take the path of least resistance. Right now getting bulk SS#s is easier through CC companies and universities as 'easy' access is significantly less limited. That would change with the real-time access that you propose.

With your real-time access plan I could also create a simple program that would enter random SS#s into the employers PC, search the SSA DB, and record the results. I could then make fake photo SS cards with a slightly different (but close enough to pass muster for some who will only see a mid-30s Latino with black hair and brown eyes, for example) picture, but based on a real Fed issued card.

I can fully understand you shaking your head at me and wondering 'WTF?' trying to fingerprint people at a farm. Ok, I may have deserved that. Well, I'm doing the same thing at you. Your network plan is every IT guys worst nightmare. You actually made the hair on the back of my neck stand up when you first wrote that you wanted real-time access.

I think you would be very surprised at the level of technology I use in everyday life.

Steve

[Michael4yah]

There can only be one solution....... the law. Allowing people to "Not Follow" the law had made our country a banana republic. It started in the mid 70s. Ive lived through it here in So Ca. There isnnt a single person in the Congress or the Senate that didnt know we were being invaded. For the past 30 years THEY ALL KNEW IT. The few that spoke out have been ostracised blakmailed or intimidated. Some would pass it off as a form of political correctness gone bad. I know its NOT because of the bleeding heart liberal that wants to extracate the lowly mexican from their dire existance, but a calculated intentional tactic to subvert America by destroying the political and ecconomic power of the WHITE MIDDLE CLASS. In doing so these members of the congresss, senate, executive branch as well as the Supreme Court itself have committed treason against us , our Constitution and our beloved country. They knew it was happening, and like Condolezza Rice during the 911 attack not only did nothing about it but allowed it to happen. I'm glad my father isnt here to see whats happened to his beloved country. It would break his heart. After fighting across 2 continents and having a tank blown out from under him he came home to marry his hi school sweetheart and raise a family in the country he very much loved. America. Are we still land of the free and home of the brave? We'll see, the time is coming where every man woman and child will be tested.
The count now is not 11 million, its 40 million. You know how we know this??? Its because thats how many are missing from Mexico and Latin America! But not to worry, the families left behind arent bewildered by this sudden disappearance of their kindred. They know where they are.... They have gone to invade America!!!

[Jamo]

Sorry Steve, I don't have any more time to deal with trying to make you understand. I have real world issues to deal with for my clients who live in the real world. You are concerned about a single issue concerning databases...same stuff ACLU types keep bringing up. I, and others who live with this every damn day, are trying to deal with workable solutions for hundreds of millions of employees and their employers so that enforcement can be enhanced rather than chained down. I'm sure you have assplained your concerns to your own satisfaction, but it is this tail wagging the dog syndrom that high tech folks keep getting embroiled in that causes the rest of us to have to deal with HD DVD vs. Blueray bullsh!t today just like Beta vs. VHS crap decades ago.

We want federal phot IDs and real time SS numbers checks...who gives a rat's ass how it gets done. I truly don't give a damn how the plumbing works below my toilet, so long as the sumb!tch flushes.

Michael...yup. It's an issue of enforcement, and so long as folks keep throwing up individual privacy issues, it will continue to be a problem regardless of what the law says.

I'm not real sure about those numbers though...have you checked the stadiums?

[Michael4yah]

Jamo Ive talked to people who frequent the rural areas as well as the main cities in Mexico, El Salvador, Guatamala, Honduras. In some areas like what would be our counties there are Ghost towns. The population #s are always politicized just like when latins are grouped in with whites in the Crime Statistics. We are swimming in Illegals and instead of the Federal Govt throwing us a lifesaver, they're pitching cinder blocks at us. Civil Wars have started over less than this!
Michael

[Sizzler]

I'd support a national photo ID. Fingerprints not needed.

With face recognition software, a clear photo of your face is as good as a fingerprint anyway.

I could see a national database of images that receive updates whenever someone steps up to a check-cashing window or ATM so that the database would track weight gains and hair loss/color changes. The 'original' photo would remain 'on top' but the newer ones would be available for checking.

And yes, people could put on wigs, putty or otherwise disquise themselves, which is why you would need a camera and recognition software at the critical points where you can't allow yourself to be fooled. Putty isn't going to move the center of the eyes closer or farther apart.

Fingerprints on an ID as well as the photo and signature and basically anything on the ID can be counterfeited. Need a bar code/chip/strip on the ID that would link back to the main database to pull up the 'real' identification information: photo, signature... to compare to person standing in front of you.

Then, you just need to make sure the main database remains secure.

Make it mandatory jail time for presenting an altered ID.

[Michael4yah]

How do you like it when a public service message comes over the tv or radio and says in a loud burley voice. Buckle Up...... Its... the.. LAW!!! Doesnt that iritate the crap out of you? I am old enough to remember when the 1st seat belt law was passed. My hometown newspaper ran a front page story on it with a 1/4 page UPI Photo. It was of the Congressmen and Senators who sponsored the bill along with many more standing on the steps of the Capital Building. I think it was 1961. The story that ran with this photo said the ONLY way the seat belt law would pass was if there was a compromise solution. That compromise was in the form of promise. The Federal govt PROMISED that no one would every be forced to Wear them!!!
I know that this seems off the subject but keep reading and I'll tie it in.

We have been programed to believe that we must accept whatever laws are enacted or suffer the consequences. We hear those Buckle up or Ticket commercials out here in LA over and over.
The reason why everything is so messed up is that the people who run this country dont think you or I have a long enough memory to hold their feet to the fire!!!!!!
NOT ONCE have I ever heard the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES openly proclaim that ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS MUST LEAVE THE COUNTRY NOW!!!!! HAVE YOU??? ITS THE LAW ISNT IT???
They have us so dumbed down that our expectations of our leaders wont even rise to the level of a conscience thought. We dont even expect our govt to act in a logical manner anymore. In other words...
It Ok to swim in a torrent of illegal aliens but you damn well better be wearing your seat belt!!!!!!!!!!

All you have to do is make the punishment high enough to deter the criminal from doing the crime. No Big Deal. The Federal Govt has built well over 100 camps around this country surrounded by barbed wire (Pointed inward by the way!). Some are in major cities, some are along major east west north south corridors and others are along the highways. These camps were funded under DOD and Fema Grants. They had names like Rex 84, Cable splicer, and the one Im more familiar with was called Garden Plot. All of these camps are connected by rail, most are manned with a skeleton crew and are ready to go at a moments notice. Give the illegal aliens an ULTIMATUM. Leave this country in a peacefull maner within 30 days or spend the next 10 years picking our fruit and vegetables for free. Fight back, and suffer the consequences. Then at the end of that10 years you bus them to the mexican border, give em 10 bucks and send them on their way with the admonition that if they are caught in our country again it will be 20 years. Voilla!! Its done. Overnight you'd see a streak heading south as wide as the grand canyon. Like it or not, This is how its done.
Michael

[Jamo]

Why go through all that expense?

I still think the most efficient approach is to invade Mexico. Move the farms to the workers, clean up their produce (which we all eat during the winter) so they don't use sewage water and control the chemicals. Pipe their oil (they have it, they just don't know how best to get it) overland, take over their beaches, etc. Keep it as a third world terroritory, like Puerto Rico and Washington DC...just tax em but hold back on the vote.

Build a fence at the southern end...much shorter.

Donkey shows are better than camel shows.

[Michael4yah]

Jamo.
Im not against invading Mexico, just that Invading Mexico like building the fence wont get rid of those that are here. All of what you said sounds good but doesnt guarantee that these illegals will go home. In fact if we're invading Mexico it would give them another reason to stay here. Many of them would claim sanctuary. Theres no question that Mexico's ruling elite have caused this problem and an invasion isnt out of the question. All I know is the longer they stay here the harder it is to get rid of em. AND THE MORE IT COSTS US. Lets invite them to leave. The hard way if necessary, then build the fence. With all the Mexicans going home that Govt wont have any choice but to change. Most of their population will be as mad as a wet hen and willing to do what they havnt had the guts to do before. After having a taste of the good life here they will feel the natural urge to force changes there. Unless of course they revert back to their old selves which is also highly likely. Im not for any remedy that wont push all illegals out as the 1st step. Its absolutley necessary for our survival.
Michael

[427 S/O]

Indications are this frankenstein bill might not come back to life?, we need to keep up the pressure and insist it not include anything that smells of amnesty.
Millions want the border secured first and that's should happen...NOW....

[Michael4yah]

Perry, No question, we have to stop the hemmoraging. Secure the border, Heck I'll even volunteer a week a year to get it done, but nothing can replace the removal of all illegals as the primary goal. If we focus on that the other things will fall in line. We are being forcefed the belief that they do us no harm. In California in one year alone the medical benefits to illegals ran 18 Billion Dollars. Lets see, thats 18 thousand Million.... WoW...That doesnt include the welfare, food stamps, education, and the costs of the congestion they cause Not to mention the crime, murder and mayhem that they are guilty of. The recently elected mayor of Los Angeles is a former member and suporter of "La Mecha" and La Raza" , you might google those two terms and get a real eyefull. Not a word of his associations to these groups was ever mentioned by the media before during or even after the elections. Watch this short 7 minute film to get an idea of whats happening. And Please pass it on . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc1XAQc8hS8&NR
Michael

[427 S/O]

Make no mistake people, you will hear the following in a few months or next year if the current immigration legislation passes.

Oh! we really can't expect them to do that!.

Oh! we need to amend this so they can do that!.

Oh! let's be reasonable!.

And on....and on......and on....

Write, call or email your LAW MAKERS........

[imagine2frolic]

M4yah, Are you running for office? You got my vote if you are! Problem with politicians is they have forgotten the old saying YOU CAN PLEASE SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME, BUT NOT ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME, and as hard as they try to please everyone. It is just not going to happen.

The only POLITICALY CORRECT tHAT I want to hear is what is good for the long term of this country. Like Ron61 one said, let them live by their own immigration rules. They can't complain it is theirs!

[petek]

Just to be sure before I go and read this d@mn thing from cover-to-cover, the bill is S.1639, http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.1639: right?

[Michael4yah]

Imagine, thanks, Nope, no office for me. It woudnt solve anything anyway, All it takes is one bullet. Weve always put too much faith in a single individual. Always waiting for someone of pure heart that will be able to turn this nation around. The thing we have to concentrate on is our Principals, Not Personalities. This is how "they" play the shell game. They push someone with a pleasing and sometimes funny personality to the forefront (sometimes it's an actor) someone that we will like,Someone we think is just and intellegent. We elect them, they go to Wash. and either forget what they said or promised, or they claim they cant get anything done because of the opposing party's power. OR, the comprimizes they make water down any real effectual change. What they really end up doing is upholding the agenda of those that got them elected. Yes, those same people behind the scenes that I've been talking about. "Those people" who run this country ARE NOT Americans, they are Globalists. Their hidden agenda is to create a one world govt. But before they can do that they must either destroy the govts of this world or at the very least destroy the peoples faith in their govts so when they spring the trap, its a done deal. This idea of a one world govt was started many years ago. 1st as the league of nations then as the united nations. Like most things it was created with good intentions but now has all the trappings of one world dictatorship. Many Heads but only one body! Whats the old saying, the road to hell is lined with good intentions!! Which brings me back to this war we're in now. Why no Declaration of War??? Its because through a presidential executive order the United States of America entered into a secret international agreement after WW2 that The UNited States Of America would never pass or sign any Declaration of War, and in so doing Truman (a globalist) handed over our Sovereignty to this World body that became the United Nations of today. Look at Korea, Viet Nam, Panama, Granada, Somalia, Irak 1, Irak 2. Afghanistan. And not a single declaration of war among them. Yet our Constitution requires it, no, it demands it. These things happen because we dont follow the Constitution. If we held our leaders to the Constitution we wouldnt be swimming in illegals now. Not following the Constitution is a slippery slope. Once you stop following it in one area all kinds of things start happening in others, most important of all is that the Fed Govt and its agencies like the INS cease to operate under the clearly written and defined laws as we real Americans do. They now have their own agenda and its not rooted in the law.

If we rebel against the ruling party "they" merely get the other party to step in make a lot of promises and by doing so they preempt us from making any real changes. So we end up being played like a ping pong ball bouncing back and forth between these two sick dead end ideologies and in the process we've lost our freedom and Im affraid with it our Republic. That's what's been happening for the last 44 years. The Red shift is on now, The Democrats are preparing to retake the white house and much mud will be slung to excite the masses into getting out the vote. In my opinion we should boycott any election where the 2 main candidates are Rep. or Dems. Enough is Enough. If we elect any Democrat or Republican nothing of any significance will ever be done NO MATTER WHAT PROMISES THEY GIVE. The Democrats have already stated that they want the illegals here, the republicans are more subtle but they want them here too. Dems want them here because the illegals are sure to vote for socialism (FREEBIES) which means they'l vote Democratic. The Republicans want them here as a source of cheap labor and in doing so it holds down wages for the rest of us. The real unseen truth is more sinister. These illegals are here to upset the majority. Who??? The White middle class. They are here to dilute its numbers and in doing so they take away its political and ecconomic advantage. Why? Because its the white middle class thats the only group of significant size, moral backbone, Patriotic and determined enough to confront this global conspiracy. In Short, We stand in their way.

These people who took this nation over on 11/22/63 are masterfull manipulators. Those of you that are under 40 probably havnt lived long enough to see and feel the big changes in our REPUBLIC. I remember a time when I felt free, a time where our leaders were actually doing what we wanted and a time where your average neighborhood policeman knew that his job wasnt to CONTROL US BUT TO INSURE THAT WE HAVE LIBERTY.
It wont matter whether we elect a Rep or Dem. The people who run this country own and operate both parties. When the people get disgruntled they merely pull one party out of the white house and plug the other one in. On 'Nov 22 1963 this country was forced to take a wrong turn in the road and its never returned to its former self.

If the vast majority of us believes in Gods Law, the Constituion, and our Republic and we Bind our politicians to those laws then they cant kill our dream with merely a bullet like they did on that Nov. day. When in doubt turn to the bible, in it God says to "Bind your nobles with fetters of iron", meaning to handcuff your leaders to the law and to the truth. We havnt done that. Thats why wer're in a war right now. These people who run our country from behind the scenes know the tide is turning, people are waking up to their tactics. But we also know that "these same people" would be willing to start a civil war to stay in power. The fuse on that war has already been lit. I dont see a political solution although I pray for one daily. One of "their" mottos is " Ordo Ab Chao" or ORDER OUT OF CHAOS. Here is a quote that sums it up pretty good:
"The puppetmasters create "disorder" so the people will demand "order". The price of "order" always entails a handing over of control and loss of freedom on the part of the citizenry. Out of "chaos" comes "order" - THEIR order - their new WORLD order."

The illegals that are here are doing the bidding of those same puppetmasters. If we allow them to stay it will be the end of our country as we know it, The changes are already starting, When I call my banks automated system I am told to press 1 for English. If I dont they refuse the call. Its psycological warfare, getting us conditioned to accept these Mexicans.
If this nation ever needed a Duly Sworn in Constitutionally protected Militia. IT'S NOW. Whatever you do, DONT BACK DOWN. Illegals Out now!!!
Michael

[Ron61]

Michael,

Well written and all sad but true. But we have lost so much of our freedoms and rights I wonder if anything short of another civil war can get any of them back and we could also get rid of the illegals at the same time as they will fight for the politicians.

Ron

[stengun]

Howdy Michael,

Originally Posted by Ron61

Michael,

Well written and all sad but true. But we have lost so much of our freedoms and rights I wonder if anything short of another civil war can get any of them back and we could also get rid of the illegals at the same time as they will fight for the politicians.

Ron

+1

Yep, The Repubs want them for cheap labor plus their vote and the Dems want them for their vote.

Let's see.... there's over 20 million (yea, everybody claims there's only 12 million yea, right blow smoke up some Repubs butt, not mine! ), and say 5 million got out and voted.........

Gee, let's see........In 2000, Gore got more of the popular vote than Bush by a couple of 100,000 votes (I'm not going to look up the numbers), and in 2004 Bush beat Kerry by about 2 million votes.

So, this group of illegals, if given the right to vote could control all nation elections and most local and state elections.

Great! That's just what we need!

Paul

[Michael4yah]

Ron61,Stengun,
Its 40 million. Thats how many are no longer in Mexico, Honduras, Guatamala,El Salvador. I bet we have close to 12-15 million here in Ca, Nv, Az, alone. Yes, they will tip the balance of all things in this country,. Never has a country in History suffered such an invasion and was able to hang onto its cultural values or its ecconomy. Its do or die for the good ole US of A.
Thanks for reading my post above, I know it was long but I was really wound up!! Never give up, To ALL illegal Aliens its OUT OUT OUT!
Michael

[Ron61]

Michael,

I agree with you completely. I have no argument at all about deporting all illegal aliens and fining or shutting down the places that employ them. Let them get their hand outs, welfare, and medical from their own countries. I love this country and after seeing some of the so called 3rd world countries, I feel even more privileged that I was born here. But with all of the Morons and politicians that want to let them keep coming in here and taking over this country, I don't know how it could be done. I guess the politicians don't realize that once they get the vote, most of them will be out of office as they will put their own people in and Americans will just be second class citizens in our own country.

Ron

[392cobra]

I don't know if Dick Lamm really said the following.
doesn't really matter though.It does speak to a lot of the points y'all have made and I agree with.

"We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream. Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"


"Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."



Lamm went on: "Second, to destroy America, invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal; that there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds."



"Third, we could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multi-ethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.' Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."



"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."



"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."



"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."



"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits. Make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."



In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book 'Mexifornia.' His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book." There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America. Take note of California and other states. To date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength." Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream. If you care for and love our country as I do, take the time to pass this on just as I did for you. NOTHING is going to happen if you don't!"

[stengun]

Howdy,

Originally Posted by Michael4yah

Ron61,Stengun,
Its 40 million. Thats how many are no longer in Mexico, Honduras, Guatamala,El Salvador. OUT OUT OUT!
Michael

WOW 40 million!!!!

We have a 1/2 mill here in Arkansas and we only have a legal population of about 3 million.

Before Jan. '01 teenagers went to McD's for a summer job. Today, they are out of luck because all of these jobs are filled by illegals.

The good news is that Lil' George's "Screw the working middle class" plan just failed. Kinda like his Iraq plan.

Paul