No Amnesty part 2

[427 S/O]

I don't remember a domestic issue that has angered more people than this 'immigration mess'. Your Representatives and Senators know full well from the millions of American citizens who contacted them. Obvious from all the face time.
I suspect we will not be pleased with the next proposal because it will likely be a 'trying to please everyone' bill.

If these millions of angered Americans stay involved, we will get a 'highly restrictive bill'.

[VRM]

Jamo,
A DB that is searchable by employers is a really bad idea. Something like that would be too easy to hack, and would also be a very inviting target.

I would propose something like the photo/thumbprint SS card, but have a second alpha-numeric code that changes every time you get a new pic. This code would be keyed at the Fed level to your SS number, photo, and thumbprint. An prospective employer sends the code (either by website or snail mail) and thumbprint to a processing centre and the centre sends out a copy of the photo attached to the card and confirms the thumbprint.

Later, if the guy is found to be an illegal, then the employer is absolved, unless the thumbprint of the person does not match the actual person.

BTW, this would be voluntary - at the employers discretion. But if the employer does not do this check - then they are liable for any fines if they get caught. They would also be allowed to hire the person until the results of the check come back. If the results come back negative then the results are delivered by an INS agent.

If you have something better, tell us about it. I want something that is not hackable, does not send SS information in regular mail or email, and places a resonable share of the burden on both the employer and employee, as well as gives the employer a point where they are not responsible for any fines, and gives the INS a place to look if someone does not properly match.

Steve

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Jamo,
A DB that is searchable by employers is a really bad idea. Something like that would be too easy to hack, and would also be a very inviting target.

I would propose something like the photo/thumbprint SS card, but have a second alpha-numeric code that changes every time you get a new pic. This code would be keyed at the Fed level to your SS number, photo, and thumbprint. An prospective employer sends the code (either by website or snail mail) and thumbprint to a processing centre and the centre sends out a copy of the photo attached to the card and confirms the thumbprint.

Later, if the guy is found to be an illegal, then the employer is absolved, unless the thumbprint of the person does not match the actual person.

BTW, this would be voluntary - at the employers discretion. But if the employer does not do this check - then they are liable for any fines if they get caught. They would also be allowed to hire the person until the results of the check come back. If the results come back negative then the results are delivered by an INS agent.

If you have something better, tell us about it. I want something that is not hackable, does not send SS information in regular mail or email, and places a resonable share of the burden on both the employer and employee, as well as gives the employer a point where they are not responsible for any fines, and gives the INS a place to look if someone does not properly match.

Steve

Steve...it's obvious you don't understand, so it's probably not worth the time that would be taken up on this site. However, in a nutshell, the SS database is already accessable to insurance companies, healthcare, credit card companies and yes, even employers...just not in real time. Thumbprints rather than pics? Hell yes, I'd go for that...but the liberals would fight it tooth and nail. That's why the federal pic ID (same as drivers licenses, so harder to argue against).

I thought, having read the bill, you would have made yourself informed of the complexities of enforcement. Obviously, from your last statement, you're not aware of the SS Mismatch lists which go out to employers and have been for several decades. Once employers turn in payroll lists to the IRS and SS, SS will send you back a list of those numbers which do not match the names. The employer, even then, is not allowed to fire the employee (because the SS card is only part of the I-9 list of acceptable IDs), but must alert the employee that the number does not match up. The employee is then allowed to go fix it at SS (or go to the guy on the street corner and get a new card). Then the employee submits the new one back to the employer, which is then submitted to the government all over again.

Here's the rub (and I've assplained this several times in these threads...your memory retention is failing ), the SS takes months to send you that list even though you submit the names/numbers quickly after folks are hired. So, the only thing we want is real time SS number/name review...it's not new, it's just too slow. If we had a federal pic ID and the number/name doesn't match, and it's the only ID allowed, we could refuse to hire the person in the first place rather than try to fire them months later. Employers could then easily be held liable if they hire the person anyway...no excuse.

[VRM]

Actually Jamo, we already have a fed pic ID. It's called a passport.

And I did not say a thumbprint instead of a photo, both would be used. It would not be all that difficult to swap a photo, but it would be impossible to fake if the information were stored in a location (the fed DB) that a forger did not have access to.

I will fully admit that I do not submit I9 info for others, nor do I know how long it takes to get back. I suspect that it is reasonable to think that our govenment plods along slower than desired. In a perfect world your solution would be just fine. Problem is, there are people out there would would love to get their hands on that kind of information. Have you heard of a thing called identity theft? Imagine what could happen to the companies you listed (many of whom have already been hacked) if they did have realtime access? It's not very elegant, but rm *.* could play havoc with the entire financial foundation.

The solution to that is not to give more people access to information that should be very tightly controlled - that is how fraud happens in the first place. The solution is to have a biometric that is not carried on the ID card, but that can be read and recorded live at the time of job application/hiring.

Your problem with what is in place now seems to be the time delay in processing the information. I'm sure better computers/networks would help, but so would an incentive for government workers to get the job done quickly and accurately instead of the current situation. Automatic raises are not the way to get people motivated. That is probably a topic for another thread.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

incentive for government workers to get the job done quickly and accurately

Now, that is funny. That's going to happen when snowballs in hell have a chance.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

incentive for government workers to get the job done quickly and accurately

Now, that is funny. That's going to happen when snowballs in hell have a chance.

I know...Problem is that it really isn't that funny.

[Wayne Maybury]

The US Federal Government is already using another form of real time ID. Anyone that is a frequent flyer and who crosses the Canada / US border is probably familiar with the NEXUS program. The identification process is via an iris scan. It is quick, easy, and from what I have heard, fool proof. The only hitch is the need to have a scanner. With internet technology evolving at a rapid pace, it should be easy to come up with a low cost solution.

Positive identification takes only a few seconds and is based on a secure data base.

Wayne