This is your liberal democrats----sad-----

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by FWB

pennsyltucky is the greatest........
im pleased with my rant. Are you?

Yes, absolutely . Vent it out, man, tell us how you really feel.

After spending the first 50 years of my life living in the Gulag of New Jersey, Pennsy is so much better that I almost don't even mind the commute back into the Gulag every day.

Of course, the game plan now is to keep going farther west - to less people and (hopefully) more open ground. Hey, BeanCounter, is there still room on the east end of Kansas? - haven't been there in about 30 years but it was nice then

[392cobra]

After watching that video I now understand how the Liberals think O is going to lower taxes. Thanks

[BeanCounter]

Still plenty of room but we've had so many coming in that we're now forced to check passports for liberal persuasion. If found we send them to St. Louis.

[imagine2frolic]

The pics of Mac are mostly kind of funny, and it is an artist's view. I think the one that made the cover make Mac look like a warrior. Then again that's only a muffler man's view. Neither side is goody two shoes. It is the lesser of 2 evils.

[BeanCounter]

Yet Hitler operated the same way that Stalin did. I would say the two were very much the same. Just two peas fighting in the same pod. Drexler, the founder of the party, espoused economic socialism with touches of right wing nationalism. It was socialism at it's base.

[FWB]

thanks turnpike.....

that is the watered down version. have friends in jersey and i will agree its better here.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by BeanCounter

Yet Hitler operated the same way that Stalin did. I would say the two were very much the same. Just two peas fighting in the same pod. Drexler, the founder of the party, espoused economic socialism with touches of right wing nationalism. It was socialism at it's base.

Bernie,
Drexler may have started the party with socialistic intent, but Hitler converted it to a fascistic one. Note that I said 'Hitlers Nazi Party' in my original comment as I would agree that there was a significant difference between what Drexler started with and what Hitler ended with.
There were many similarities between the Hitler and Stalin, but I would say that Stalin ran a more fascist state than Hitler a socialist one rather than the other way around. China has a more pure form of communism than the USSR ever did.

Hitler used some attributes of communism/socialism to achieve his goals, but those goals were very fascist/statist, and therefore to the ultra-right of the spectrum. He had a socialist sense in that all the social classes were equal, but only in the sense that they would equally contribute to the advance of the state as well as themselves. Most professional historians also acknowledge this. If you still really doubt it go read Mien Kampf - that should clear up most of your doubts.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

Steve,

I guess you missed this quote:

"Als nationale Sozialisten sehen wir in unserer Flagge unser Programm. Im Rot sehen wir den sozialen Gedanken der Bewegung, im Weiss den nationalistischen, im Hakenkreuz die Mission des Kampfes fuer den Sieg des arischen Menschen und zugleich mit ihm auch den Sieg des Gedankens der schaffenden Arbeit" ("As National socialists we see our programme in our flag. In red we see the social thoughts of the movement, in white the nationalist thoughts, in the hooked-cross the mission of fighting for the victory of Aryan man and at the same time the victory of the concept of creative work").

A Hitler

[BeanCounter]

And since I know you're going to argue here's a couple more:

"There is more that binds us to Bolshevism than separates us from it. There is, above all, genuine, revolutionary feeling, which is alive everywhere in Russia except where there are Jewish Marxists. I have always made allowance for this circumstance, and given orders that former Communists are to be admitted to the party at once. The petit bourgeois Social-Democrat and the trade-union boss will never make a National Socialist, but the Communists always will."


"Of what importance is all that, if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the Party, is supreme over them regardless of whether they are owners or workers. All that is unessential; our socialism goes far deeper. It establishes a relationship of the individual to the State, the national community. Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings."

(Quoted in Hermann Rauschning, Hitler Speaks, London, T. Butterworth, 1940)

[RalphSchmalph]

What difference does it make? National Socialism, Communism, Jihadism, any other tyranny you want to give a name to.......if it isn't Democratic Capitalism then to Hell with it and all its servants!

"A ruling intelligentsia, whether in Europe, Asia or Africa, treats the masses as raw material to be experimented on, processed, and wasted at will."

--Eric Hoffer

[J. T. Toad]

Originally Posted by RalphSchmalph

What difference does it make? National Socialism, Communism, Jihadism, any other tyranny you want to give a name to.......if it isn't Democratic Capitalism then to Hell with it and all its servants!

"A ruling intelligentsia, whether in Europe, Asia or Africa, treats the masses as raw material to be experimented on, processed, and wasted at will."

--Eric Hoffer

brrrrrrrgh.... wow, Democratic Capitalism or hell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_capitalism



"Thirty-eight years after the Declaration of Independence, John Adams warned: Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy that did not commit suicide. "

"Democracy or Republic, Which Is It?"
by Benedict D La Rosa

[RalphSchmalph]

Interesting post Mr. Toad. Your cite of the wikipedia article is a good definition of Democratic Capitalism. John Adams was deeply hurt by his feud with Jefferson and retired with a very bad taste in his mouth for electoral politics. Elections in those days were much more violent and hateful than even the last few we've experienced. BTW, which democracies have committed suicide?
I guess a true democracy would have the right to do so by it's very nature.

[J. T. Toad]

Ask John Adams.

"Democratic self-government does not work, according to Plato, because ordinary people have not learned how to run the ship of state. They are not familiar enough with such things as economics, military strategy, conditions in other countries, or the confusing intricacies of law and ethics. "

http://faculty.frostburg.edu/phil/forum/PlatoRep.htm

It is my understanding that the founding fathers knew the dangers of a democracy. Our government was intended to be a Republic. In a Democracy, when the ruling class (democratic majority/mob) determines they can vote in their own benefits.... they slit their own throat. This is what is happening today. Look at the California Correction Officers....

http://www.marinij.com/opinion/ci_10434946

considering their salaries (averaging 62K/ year)

http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Career_Opport...R/COIndex.html

and their penchant for disability claims, it won't be long before the tax payers (non-government employee) drown.

[VRM]

Bernie,
Your own posts back up what I have said, especially the last one you posted. Communists would be allowed because they are used to having a state tell them what to do, and the transition between communists and fascists is only an economic one. You posted yourself that people could own land and factories as much as they pleased. This was even encouraged because if they were successful then they would be able to contribute more to the state. Had the goal been to contribute primarily back to the workers, then they would have been a socialistic state. All the people in Germany existed to serve the state, rather than themselves, and that is what makes the difference.

And as I said, most professional historians favour Hitlers Germany being classified as a fascistic state rather than a socialistic one. Hitler can call it any damn thing he wants (and I would agree that he certainly does), but that does not change the true nature of his government.

Steve

[BeanCounter]

Gee, how did I divine that you would continue to argue.

Being the accountant that I am, and you being who you are, please provide me with a list of all professional historians (other than yourself) with each being marked as for or against so that I can total them up to insure myself that 50.000000000000001% of them agree with you.

[turnpike boy]

Shame, shame indeed!

p.s. - where are those bikini pics? For strictly professional reasons, of course

[wtm442]

[Ron61]

Ernie,

I would certainly prefer to see Palin in a bikini than Obama.

Ron