The Next 4 years......

[427 S/O]

Check this out!, could be some interesting exchanges soon. They honestly don't know what their doing......

WASHINGTON — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told the Wall Street Journal that she is considering a two-staged effort to boost the shaky U.S. economy, arguing for action now on a stimulus package of $60 billion to $100 billion, followed early next year by a companion measure that would include a “permanent tax cut.”

It appears Speaker Pelosi isn’t wasting any time to get out ahead of the new Obama administration with some of her own plans for economic aid. Tomorrow Barack Obama will announce parts of his economic agenda, so the timing of Pelosi’s announcement shouldn’t go unnoticed. With Pelosi mentioning “permanent tax cuts” but leaving details to the imagination, we may be begin to see some friction inside the Democratic party about how best to help the economy. One wonders if Pelosi consulted the President-Elect before discussing these plans. They may also be using Pelosi to float ideas to gauge public reaction.

http://briansullivan.blogs.foxbusine...onomic-agenda/

[Paul F]

Thanks for the education guys. Low capital gains is one of the few tax loopholes I can take advantage of as I approach retirement. So I'm all infavor of it. The idea of raising it as a way to tax the rich is shortsighted. Most retirees rely on it.

Bloody heck. I thought CDC was kidding with the 401K item. That's frightening.

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Thanks for the education guys. Low capital gains is one of the few tax loopholes I can take advantage of as I approach retirement. So I'm all infavor of it. The idea of raising it as a way to tax the rich is shortsighted. Most retirees rely on it.

Bloody heck. I thought CDC was kidding with the 401K item. That's frightening.

Some more input......

Workforce Management
October 16, 2008

Powerful House Democrats are eyeing proposals to overhaul the nation’s $3 trillion 401(k) system, including the elimination of most of the $80 billion in annual tax breaks that 401(k) investors receive.

House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D-California, and Rep. Jim McDermott, D-Washington, chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee’s Subcommittee on Income Security and Family Support, are looking at redirecting those tax breaks to a new system of guaranteed retirement accounts to which all workers would be obliged to contribute.

A plan by Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic-policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, contains elements that are being considered. She testified last week before Miller’s Education and Labor Committee on her proposal.

At that hearing, the director of the Congressional Budget Office, Peter Orszag, testified that some $2 trillion in retirement savings has been lost over the past 15 months.

Under Ghilarducci’s plan, all workers would receive a $600 annual inflation-adjusted subsidy from the U.S. government but would be required to invest 5 percent of their pay into a guaranteed retirement account administered by the Social Security Administration. The money in turn would be invested in special government bonds that would pay 3 percent a year, adjusted for inflation.

The current system of providing tax breaks on 401(k) contributions and earnings would be eliminated.
_____

Therefore, the government will (as it does with SS) manage your mandatory retirement funds if this happens. A 3% annual return will not make it.

On the other hand, those who don't take care of retirement business during the earning years require some sort of mandatory plan as millions end up and will end up on a government program in retirement or before - simply because they tend to spend all their funds and, in the end, we end up having to cover that bad habit.

[Roz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6ikOxi9yYk

[nevermind65]

This is all a laughable joke at best. I still remember half the promises Bush made, and here we are 8 years later, and only a few ever got implemented.

Who knows what will happen under Obama? All we are seeing is speculation. I can tell you this though...the economy sucks under Bush and unemployment just skyrocketed. So much for the Bush economic policies. Giving all those massive tax breaks to the wealthy sure paid off now didn't it?

[J. T. Toad]

His first selection of Rahm Emanuel and seeking Clinton economic advisers isn't speculation, it's change from .... 16 years ago.

http://soccerdad.baltiblogs.com/arch...n_updated.html

Laughable is right....

from current headlines (foxnews)

"Obama: No Quick, Easy Fix" - that doesn't sound like change

"Obama: Choosing Family Dog Is a 'Pressing Issue'" - priorities.


psssssSSSSTTTTT! - Clinton's social engineering is being reaped as we speak!

how did you get off my ignore list.

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by nevermind65

Giving all those massive tax breaks to the wealthy sure paid off now didn't it?

According to The Tax Foundation, in 2005 the top 1 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $364,657) earned approximately 21.2 percent of the nation's income (as defined by AGI), yet paid 39.4 percent of all federal income taxes. That means people representing the top 1 percent of tax returns paid about the same amount of federal individual income taxes as the bottom 95 percent.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22652.html

Also, most tax deductions for folks making over $365k are phased out (primary tax deductions available are mortgage interest and charitable donations; they can't even take the deduction for their kids--as this is phased out), and they get hit with the AMT. So you might want to get informed a bit so you can step back from your class-warfare mentality.

nevermind65, how much more should folks in the top tax bracket be expected to pay? When is enough, enough?

[Bobcat]

Nevermind65 .... "the economy sucks under Bush and unemployment just skyrocketed " ... I spent my working life in manufacturing and sales . Still have contacts there. Food for thought ... Obama says he is going to give Unions an open ballot for elections ... no more secret ballots . This opens folks up to all sorts of pressure from the Union organizers and will make organizing plants/workplaces much easier . I have been told that some companies are already shedding people ( they are an expense that can be reduced ) while they can and also speeding up automation plans .
Maybe it`s my imagination , but isn`t unemployment much higher in states that are heavily unionized ?
Stock market going down ?? Part of it is because people are told capital gains and dividend taxes are going up . Guess what ... you sell now to save money ... I did .
Second , go back and check, but when the Democrats increased the minimum wage recently , the unemployment rate went up the next month .... Bush`s fault ??
Don`t get me wrong ... there is plenty of blame for both parties , but I believe it was Chris Dodd and Barney Fwank that were heavily involved in the fiasco at Fannie May and Freddie Mac ... and yes , Republicans were also involved , but not to the extent those two were ... and this was the final straw ,imo , that brought everything down .
Raise taxes on the evil rich ? Must be nice to be able to legally steal someone`s money and give it to someone else ... oh , I forget , they don`t really need all that money they worked for .
Read Ayn Rand`s book ... Atlas Shrugged .

[nevermind65]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Nevermind65 .... "the economy sucks under Bush and unemployment just skyrocketed " ... I spent my working life in manufacturing and sales . Still have contacts there. Food for thought ... Obama says he is going to give Unions an open ballot for elections ... no more secret ballots . This opens folks up to all sorts of pressure from the Union organizers and will make organizing plants/workplaces much easier . I have been told that some companies are already shedding people ( they are an expense that can be reduced ) while they can and also speeding up automation plans .
Maybe it`s my imagination , but isn`t unemployment much higher in states that are heavily unionized ?
Stock market going down ?? Part of it is because people are told capital gains and dividend taxes are going up . Guess what ... you sell now to save money ... I did .
Second , go back and check, but when the Democrats increased the minimum wage recently , the unemployment rate went up the next month .... Bush`s fault ??
Don`t get me wrong ... there is plenty of blame for both parties , but I believe it was Chris Dodd and Barney Fwank that were heavily involved in the fiasco at Fannie May and Freddie Mac ... and yes , Republicans were also involved , but not to the extent those two were ... and this was the final straw ,imo , that brought everything down .
Raise taxes on the evil rich ? Must be nice to be able to legally steal someone`s money and give it to someone else ... oh , I forget , they don`t really need all that money they worked for .
Read Ayn Rand`s book ... Atlas Shrugged .

Obviously you missed my whole point. To sit there and say "the sky is falling" when somebody has yet to even take office is a bit like crying wolf. I'm not a union fan and never claimed to be. I personally think they are driving the prevailing wage lower with all their antics. On the flip side though, we continually see manufacturing leaving overseas and while the middle class has only seen small wage increases over the years, the elite of our society has benefitted massively from the tax cuts and freebies.

Say what you want, but it is pretty obvious that all those tax cuts over the last few years haven't seemed to create a lot of permanent jobs since the unemployment rate is skyrocketing.

As for the market, I'm buying like mad. 20 some years left to retirement and guaranteed it will rebound a few times between now and then. There is way too much money in the market for it to be so low.

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

and yes , Republicans were also involved ,

That would be incorrect.ALL people invloved(making decisions) at Fannie & Freddie were Democrats.

[Bobcat]

Guys ... maybe I put it poorly . Nevermind 65 , maybe I did miss your point and if so I apologize . I agree that we don`t know what our new President will do yet , however , when he says some of the things he says , people react . One of the reactions was to the new power unions could have. I had one company owner tell me he would seriously consider firing all his employees and hire all temps from an agency . This would allow him to get rid of anyone who wasn`t working out with no Union problems and also have other benefits for him .
This gets a little involved on manufacturing going overseas and jobs leaving , but when the tax burden is so heavy on industry , they look for ways to maximize profits . When Daimler and Chrysler merged , the reason the new company was based in Europe instead of the US was because there was roughly a 16% advantage to incorporate in Europe .
Please understand that I am probably unhappier than most about jobs going overseas as I have been involved with manufacturing all my working life and was/am damn proud of " Made in America " and still buy American wherever I can .
Cobrabill ... what I should have said was that the Republicans can share blame for not screaming bloody murder about what was happening . Keeping quiet means they are also to blame in my mind .

[imagine2frolic]

Let's see....it's claimed all the problems started with Clinton. Yet over a period of 8 years George couldn't fix it? Unemployment is high, 401's are lost, the elite get richer, people are losing their homes. Some may deserve losing their homes, but there are plenty who are just caught in an ugly economy. It's time to quit pointing fingers. It's time to fix it, and pull together as one countrymen. Put the damned basturds in prison that have raped this country

[stuartb]

This is not to point fingers, but unions are a problem here in the U.S. Just look at the teachers union it is almost impossible to fire a teacher even if they aren't doing their job to an efficient standard, much less to fire them if they have done something improper with a student. Unions were originally there to help workers with dangerous work conditions. Now with all of the govt. regulations on business there is really no need for them and they keep costing the country jobs. Just the same way there is not much use for many of our elected politicians, we have plenty of laws and we don't need any more they know it, but they have to find a way to hold on to their jobs.

[imagine2frolic]

Originally Posted by stuartb

This is not to point fingers, but unions are a problem here in the U.S. Just look at the teachers union it is almost impossible to fire a teacher even if they aren't doing their job to an efficient standard, much less to fire them if they have done something improper with a student. Unions were originally there to help workers with dangerous work conditions. Now with all of the govt. regulations on business there is really no need for them and they keep costing the country jobs. Just the same way there is not much use for many of our elected politicians, we have plenty of laws and we don't need any more they know it, but they have to find a way to hold on to their jobs.

I think with voting going from 30something % to 60something % things will get fixed. Our vote is our message. Unfortunately we have focused on the individual, and not our country as a whole. Definatley things need to change. I do not like Obama. I think he got votes, because it was a message. He didn't get mine. Things are not working as they are except for the few.

All this crying about who pays what taxes. Why not an equal tax for everyone. No more advantages to those who can afford them. Such as the second home etc. etc. Let those in D.C. pay their own damned insurance. They can afford it easily. I really wish I could vote myself a raise, and free healthcare like D.C. does.

Greed is not good. It brings about scoundrel behaviour, and soon these people feel entitled to what they are taking. So they manipulate more into their own pocket. Those at the top forget we workers need to make a descent check, so we can afford what they are attempting to sell.

The bailout is a joke. Banks getting a handout to buy another bank, and not releasing funds. These people should be charged, and imprisoned. I am not talking about a country club. I am talking where Bubba wants your A$$, because you stole his mommas retirement fund.

[Bobcat]

There is a proposal already out there called the Fair Tax that was concieved by Congressman John Linder . I`ve looked at it and it appears to be very well researched .... basically a consumption tax with the Federal income tax , SSI and Medicare taxes eliminated and the IRS eliminated .
You would pay absolutely nothing until you bought something and then only about what the price was before as there is about a 23% imbedded Fedreal tax on everything now . The Govt. will continue to be funded at current levels. This will also take away the power the politicians now hold because of the current tax structure .
, which is why it will probably never pass.
From what I can see , the Democrat Party is now the Socialist Party and Republicans are now Democrats .... where is Vlad the Impaler when you need him ??
Two proposals .... and no , I not smoking something I shouldn`t ..... only tax payers can vote and second , for every law passed , two have to come off the books

[Dan40]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

Let's see....it's claimed all the problems started with Clinton. Yet over a period of 8 years George couldn't fix it? Unemployment is high, 401's are lost, the elite get richer, people are losing their homes. Some may deserve losing their homes, but there are plenty who are just caught in an ugly economy. It's time to quit pointing fingers. It's time to fix it, and pull together as one countrymen. Put the damned basturds in prison that have raped this country

Ah, that would primarily be our elected 'officials.' Both Dems and GOP's. But Prex BO would pardon the Dems.

To fix the problem, first you must identify the problem. How long do you think it will take for the politicians to admit the problem is them? Passing incredibly stupid laws like the CRA, requiring banks to make BAD loans [not "sub-prime loans, that is cop out doublespeak], BAD loans that do not and will not EVER be paid and certainly not be profitable. When Government "regulates' business, we all pay about 40% more just to cover the regulations requirements. Some regulation is a necessary evil. But when Government gets involved in telling business HOW to do its business. We cannot EVER hope to be able to afford that.
You gripe that oil companies are bad because they make so much money, even tho the margins are not excessive. It is just that the volume is so large. To be against them for that is Unamerican.
To the business community, MONEY is the AIM and result of successful business operation.

To the Government, MONEY is a tool used to wield power. They have no clue how to or interest in creating money. Just using it.

Dan

[fasterpatrick]

Personaly, I'm investing in torches and pitchforks the march starts when they take the money I worked my ass off to put away for when I can't work any more. Only to give it to some lazy crackhead to keep voting them in. Because I have no faith in a government that thinks we are nothing but sheeple.
easily kept needing them to keep us alive. Wait till we can't get proper health care because we have lived a full life and we can no longer produce for society.
Rant over
Patrick

[Excaliber]

Why not equal tax? Because it wouldn't be equal. 20% of a low wage earners income is a substantial amount that directly impacts their ability to buy food, pay rent, etc. 20% of a high wage earners income will NOT impact their ability to buy food or pay for their home. Big difference, one is struggling to survive, the other deciding if the house staff should have to pay for their own dry cleaning.

It's like saying the oil companies 'only' made a 10% profit last year. But the numbers are SO huge that 10% is the elephant in the room that 'rich' people tend to ignore.

[imagine2frolic]

Bc,

That's more along the lines when I say equal tax. Yes I understand those that make next to nothing cannot pay the same. Maybe fair should have been used instead of equal.

Ernie,

I thought for a while some of the forum had you buried in the backyard. I don't come around often, because I am busy trying to have the boat ready to sail to South East Asia within the year. It's nice to be able to take your home with you when the neighborhood isn't working out anymore.....lolololol

[Excaliber]

Because of the volume of money involved with the oil companies they should in fact be taxed accordingly. Nothing wrong with making a profit, even a lot of profit, now step up and do what's right for the people your making that profit from.