Should the US bailout the big three automakers?

[Jerry Clayton]

The reason they use private jets is because the airline pilots are union members

[sparks]

never thought of that

[Jerry Clayton]

Seems like this has turned into North/South, Midwest/West deal

[Cobrabill]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

Seems like this has turned into North/South, Midwest/West deal

Jerry,once more with clarity.

[cobra bill]

The way I see it they were in bed with the oil companies, let them bail them out!

[Jerry Clayton]

Every body has been in the tent with the oil folks----being a farm boy I think we should take some of them out behind the barn for a talk---

For years (since the PCV was introduced) the auto makers have only made engines that met the Gov. tail pipe smell test----nothing has been done about milage-----oh sure, gas guzzler tax, kind of like alcohol and tobacco tax---

If this country was seriously concerned about energy-----we would turn off some lights at night in hardware stores, malls and car lots, we would time the traffic lights on our streets and roads(milage while setting still?) work a four day work week of 10 hour days(since some places would start 2 hr early and some go 2 hr later, it would spread out the traffic rush hour and wouldn't be as bad) and either on Mondays or Fridays would be even less)

[speed220mph]

Everyone has reservations about the government, any government, getting involved in anything because they can screw it up royaly. Once the government has control and there are problems, they are the first to place the blame elsewhere. For example, anyone who flys knows the expression, "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to HELP you". It's all down hill from there. That said, check out what Peter DeLorenzo of Autoextremist has to say:

"Detroit. In the last week I have done several live and taped radio interviews across the country and with the BBC in London, a spirited interview with Diane Tucker appearing in The Huffington Post entitled, “Journalist to GOP: You're 100 Percent Wrong About U.S. Automakers,” and I have several national and international TV appearances slated for the next few days too. The subject? The looming implosion of Detroit, of course. People want to know the who, what, when, where, why of this whole thing, and they want to know about the cost, both in terms of taxpayer money needed and the real cost to the economy if the Detroit automakers don’t receive these bridge loans.

The din out there in the media right now is so anti-Detroit, anti-“bailout” that I welcome the opportunity to present the other side of the debate, even if it appears with each passing day that Detroit is running out of time and unable to break through the negative media clutter that envelopes the industry at every turn. And after that death march of a hearing before the Senate Banking Committee yesterday, I’m even more pessimistic.

When Alan Mulally, Rick Wagoner, Bob Nardelli and Ron Gettelfinger sat down in front of the microphones, I knew it wasn’t going to be good, especially when Peter Morici – the relentlessly self-promoting economics professor from the University of Maryland – sat down next to them (more on him in “On The Table” this week – ed). Which Senator was responsible for inviting him is anyone’s guess, but it was clear that this was a setup from the get go.

We then had to watch as each of these U.S. Senators spewed their particular brand of inaccuracies and flat-out misconceptions about the automobile industry in their opening statements. A very few were actually worth listening to – and I mean like two - while most of the others were so blatantly self-serving and out of touch with reality that it was painful to watch. And then some acted like they were just hatched yesterday and were so resolute in their lack of awareness about what was going on and why they had to be there in the first place that it was simply appalling .

I can’t help but think that when enlightened Americans watched these people in action – the people who were actually elected by us to be in office – that they recoiled in horror at the absolutely stunning lack of knowledge, awareness, sense of place, sense of well, anything that was displayed by these Senators yesterday. Is this really the best we can do? I certainly hope not.

At any rate, the message in that hearing room was clear: Detroit put itself in the shape it finds itself in by building bad, low-tech cars that nobody wants. That they were regurgitating the now-obligatory woeful misperception of Detroit that has spread across the country - a Detroit that hasn’t existed for the better part of a decade, by the way - was obvious. The fact that these Senators weren’t aware of the kind of ultra-competitive products that these companies have out now was predictable. And the fact that they weren’t aware of the kind of leading edge technological development that Detroit is actively engaged in was predictable too.

Being clueless in Washington isn’t all that uncommon, unfortunately, but when misconceptions, half-truths and flat-out lies get hoisted up the flagpole as Fact, then it’s no wonder that the leaders of these Detroit car companies were on the defensive and unable to score points with the judges.

Proof of that was on display yesterday when the senators in that hearing room kept talking about restructuring, as if it was a new-fangled idea that these Detroit CEOs weren’t aware of. And they had to be reminded over and over again that Detroit has been restructuring and revamping since 2000, that Detroit hasn’t been operating in a vacuum, that Detroit does build competitive and class-leading products, that Detroit has pioneered new technologies, that Detroit is a viable, relevant, strategic industry that’s part of the crucial fabric of America’s manufacturing base, that the worst financial crisis in seven decades has wreaked havoc on their ability to do business, and on, and on, and on.

Back when things were booming for the domestic automobile industry, the importance of lobbying in Washington and having a consistent and focused image strategy that presented these companies’ positions and outlined their contributions to the American economy wasn’t a top priority. Now that it is, and the Detroit Three are playing catchup - while taking body blows and backed up against the ropes - the Old Detroit is still slamming the New Detroit to the ground.

The Perception Gap that exists out there for the Detroit automakers isn’t narrowing, it’s actually growing wider. Because when Americans get what minimal news they’re willing to digest – and only because it’s pre-packaged in carefully doled-out sound bites – then the Old Detroit will perennially overshadow the New Detroit, hands down.

Detroit may get help from Washington, but left to their own devices - and timetables - it’s looking like the politicians will come up with something that’s too little and too late to actually make a difference.

And that’s a giant bowl of Not Good.

Thanks for listening."


Rants - Autoextremist.com ~ the bare-knuckled, unvarnished, high octane truth

[rbray]

What would Ronald Reagan do?

[Jamo]

Hmmm.... DeLorenzo

[jhv48]

Too late, looks like we already did!

[speed220mph]

rbray: As for what Ronald Regean would do, I suspect he wouldn't have allowed us to get in this fix in the first place. But we are where we are. Pretty soon a taxer and spender will have control of the reigns, like they're not in control of the legislative side. My guess is what was done to the mortgage and banking sectors of the U.S. economy will also be done to the auto industry. As a result, the backbone of our industrial sector and economy will be gone. As DeLorenzo said, "And that’s a giant bowl of Not Good."

[Tony Radford]

I personally didn't see anything more than the snippets that were played on various new shows like ABC and Fox and to that design, I'm sure, it looked like those representatives of their respective companies came a bit unprepared to present a case that was commensurate with the looming "life or death" that would result by their securing or not securing the congressional cash infusion. I'm just a bug on the butthole of a bug compared to those guys and any time I've had to present a significant request to my management (particularly if it's unpopular), I've been sure to draft a presentation that blatently displays any relevant points necessary to rationalize the outcome I was looking for. The point that these "top end" executives were crushed by politicians who were mired in misconceptions doesn't fly for me if all they did was show up in a jet with a tin cup. Doesn't look like the big three are getting their money's worth from their high-paid leaders.

[Snakebit]

Why do we keep electing the same polititions and expecting change? Isn't that the deffination of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? The next election everyone should find out who is in office and vote them out of office. "Get rid of incombant polititions" GRIP. This would send one hell of a message to Washington and to your state government that we are sick and tired of putting up with all this crap!

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by Snakebit

Why do we keep electing the same polititions and expecting change? Isn't that the deffination of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? The next election everyone should find out who is in office and vote them out of office. "Get rid of incombant polititions" GRIP. This would send one hell of a message to Washington and to your state government that we are sick and tired of putting up with all this crap!

You're two weeks too late.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ng8264723

That $400,000 surgery costs $400,000 b/c you have people whospend 15 years training for the job. It's interesting that people don't wat to pay MD's but will pay a baseball player millions. Health care is not a right it's a privilege.
ED Doc

Pay the doctors the mega bucks, but stop charging $25 for one aspirin.

[speed220mph]

The bailout . . . a different perspective

Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for
tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed.
Now we are trusting the economy of our country to a pack of nit-wits who
couldn't make money running a whore house and selling booze?

Quote of the day from a fund manager:

"This is worse than a divorce... I've lost half of my net worth and I
still have my wife.."

[CobraDan]

________________________________________
Stores across America are being scheduled to close after the Christmas season due to economic difficulties and bankruptcy.
Circuit City Filed Bankruptcy, they promised to keep all stores open for the holiday season, but afterwards, they plan on closing 155 stores nationwide.

Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide.
A company spokeswoman said the company hasn't revealed which stores will be
shuttered. It will let the stores that will close this fiscal year know
over the next month

Eddie Bauer to close more stores.
Eddie Bauer has already closed 27 shops in the first quarter and plans to
close up to two more outlet stores by the end of the year.

Cache closing stores.
Women's retailer Cache announced that it is closing 20 to 23 stores this
year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, and Catherines closing 150 stores nationwide.
The owner of retailers Lane Bryant , Fashion Bug, Catherines Plus Sizes will
close about 150 underperforming stores this year. The company hasn't
provided a list of specific store closures and can't say! when it will offer
that info, spokeswoman Brooke Perry said today.

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores.
About a month ago, Talbots announced that it will be shuttering all 78 of
its kids and men 's stores. Now t he company says it will close another 22
underperforming stores. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and
J Jill, another chain it owns. The closures will occur this fiscal year,
according to a company press release.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores
In addition to its namesake chain, Gap also owns Old Navy and Banana
Republic . The company said the closures - all planned for fiscal 2008 -
will be weighted toward the Gap brand.

Foot Locker to close 140 stores
In the company press release and during its conference call with analysts
today, it did not specify where the future store closures - all planned in
fiscal 2008 - will be. The company could not be immediately reached for
comment

Wickes is going out of business
Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores.
Wickes, a 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed
for bankruptcy protection last month.

Goodbye Levitz / BOMBAY - closed already The furniture retailer, which is
going out of business. Levitz first announced it was going out of business
and closi! ng all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to
1910 when Richard Levitz opened his first furniture store in Lebanon, PA. In
the 1960s, the warehouse/showroom concept brought Levitz to the forefront of
the furniture industry. The local Levitz closures will follow the shutdown
of Bombay .

Zales, Piercing Pagoda closing stores
The owner of Zales and Piercing Pagoda previously said it plans to close 82
stores by Jul y 31. Later, they announced that it is closing another 23
underperforming stores. The company said it's not providing a list of
specific store closures. Of the 105 locations planned for closure, 50 are
kiosks and 55 are stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores The Walt Disney Company
announced it acquired about 220 Disney Stores from subsidiaries of The
Children's Place Retail Stores. The exact number of stores acquired will
depend on negotiations with landlords. Those subsidiaries of Children's
Place filed for bankruptcy protection in late March. In the news release,
Disney said it has also obtained the right to close about 98 Disney Stores
in the U.S. The press release didn't list those stores.

Home Depot store closings
Nearly 7+ months after its chief executive said there were no plans to cut
the number of its core retail stores, The Home Depot Inc. announced
Thursday that it is shuttering 15 of them amid a slumping US. economy and
housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first
time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship
store for performance reasons. Its shares rose almost 5 percent.
The Atlanta-based company said the underperforming U.S. stores being closed
represent less than 1 percent of its existing stores They will be
shuttered with in the next two months .

CompUSA clarifies details on store closings Any extended
warranties purchased for products through CompUSA will be honored by a
third-party provider, Assurant Solutions. Gift cards, rain checks, and
rebates purchased prior to December 12 can be redeemed at any time during
the final sale. For those who have a gadget currently in for service with
CompUSA, the repair will be completed and the gadget will be returned to
owners.

Macy's - 9 stores

Movie Gallery - 160 stores will close as part of a reorganization plan to
exit bankruptcy.
The video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery and
Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental
chain closed last fall.

Pep Boys - 33 stores

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations
New Sprint Nextel CEO Dan Hesse appears to have inherited a company bleeding
subscribers by the thousands, and will now officially be dropping the ax on
4,000 employees and 125 retail locations. Amid the loss of 639,000 postpaid
customers in the fourth quarter, Sprint will be cutting a total of 6.7% of
its work force (following the 5,000 layoffs last year)! and 8% of
company-owned brick-and-mortar stores, while remaining mute on other rumors
that it will consolidate its headquarters in Kansas . Sprint Nextel shares
are down $2.89, or nearly 25%, at the time of this writing.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot will be scaling back and cutting jobs.

Ethan Allen Interiors - The company announced plans to close 12 of 300+
stores in an effort to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts - all 260 mall stores.

Pacific Sunwear will close its 154 Demo stores after a review of strategic
alternatives for the urban-apparel brand Seventy-four underperforming Demo
stores closed last May.

Sharper Image: The company recently filed for bankruptcy protection and
announced that 90 of its 184 stores are closing. The retailer will still
operate 94 stores to pay off debts, but 90 of these stores have performed
poorly and also may close.

Bombay Company
The company unveiled plans ! to clos e all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company
stores. The company's online storefront has discontinued operations.

KB Toys posted a list of 356 stores that it is closing around the United
States as part of its bankruptcy reorganization.

Dillard's to Close More Stores
Dillard's Inc. said it will continue to focus on closing underperforming
stores, reducing expenses and improving its merchandise in 2008. At the
company's annual shareholder meeting, CEO William Dillard II said the
company will close another six underperforming stores this year.

Starbucks: Starbucks will close approximately 600 company- operated stores in the U.S.

Pier 1: Announced that they would be closing an undisclosed number of stores.

Kirklands: A chain of home decor stores will be closing nearly 130 stores nationwide.

Sprint: to cut 4500 jobs. and 125 stores.

Linens 'n Things: Is closing 120 stores nationwide

Dell Inc. closed its 140 kiosks in the United States

Liz Claiborne Inc. said it's closing the entire 54-store Sigrid Olsen chain.

Lone Star Steak House: 27 stores closing.

84 Lumber: 12 stores closing

Rite Aid: 28 stores

Big Dollar: dollar stores closing 10 stores

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by tool time George

Charging 387 thousand for surgery to someone who makes 10$/hr is utterly ridiculous.

I agree. So just don't do the operation. It saves money. Major organ transplants, like liver transplants, are really the only operations to cost that kind of money. Canada has taken that point of view as well. Ssaves everybody money. I say let those people die. There is a point where the life of somebody is not worth the cost to keep them alive, and no $10/hr person is worth $400,000.

NDP renews call for change to organ donation system
Tue, 2008-07-29 12:41.
Lisa Naccarato
Renewed calls today for the province to revamp its organ donation system. New democrats say last year 100 people died waiting for an organ transplant while healthy organs were wasted.

Listen to Lisa Naccarato's report on proposed changes to the organ donation program

MPP Peter Kormos has been championing this issue for years, this fall he'll re-introduce for a third time a private member's bill calling on the McGuinty government to change the organ donor system to one that presumes consent, instead of requiring written permission.

"As we speak, good organs are being burned or buried across this province. It takes the political will, the political will to do it."

Andres Cotic fully supports Kormos' bill, he's in desperate need of a liver transplant, the 60 year old Toronto man says there are thousands on the organ wait list suffering and dying in silence.



Like I said. Not doing the operations saves money. Canada knows. 100 people, $400,000 a piece. Canada saved $40,000,000. And those people would likely not be productive after the operation anyways. Canada knows what it's doing.

[ng8264723]

Like I said. Not doing the operations saves money. Canada knows. 100 people, $400,000 a piece. Canada saved $40,000,000. And those people would likely not be productive after the operation anyways. Canada knows what it's doing.

You are an ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Try saying that to a 9 year old child who needs a transplant. Carrol Shelby has a heart transplant. He seems to be productive. What a thing to say. When it's your loved one what would you do? Sorry too expensive your going to die. Also Canada hasn't taken that view. Please don't talk about things you haven't a clue about
ER DOC

[brobehr]

seems alittle odd the oil companies want no part of helping out with their 14 billion in profits. Probably saw the union fat and wanted no part in that roadapple...
unions had their place in the turn of the century, however they have completely lost touch with reality.
bailout no- moderate interest loan maybe
brobehr