Early Reviews of Obama's GM 'Gamble' Don't Look Good

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

Very interesting, 427sharpe.

I run into a lot of 'conservatives' like you on other conservatives sites. You are clearly hard-right and although there is nothing wrong with that point of view, reality needs to be inserted into the mix as well. Your perfect candidate, one that also can win sufficient votes to be elected simply doesn't exist or if those type of candidates do exist they are not interested. Way too many 'conservatives' are holding out for the perfect candidate and voting all over the map, as you have outlined - independents like you.

Unfortunately, it's people like you that tend to direct and indirectly get liberals elected. Very sad. Compromise is not a necessity or quality that you can understand. Good luck with that approach - I actually hope that you and people like you 'win' something. But, that's doubtful.

I tend to agree. California's Republican Party is splitting at the seams over this same scenario. I'm a conservative at heart, but getting someone voted into state-wide office requires a moderate persona given the Democrat popular majority, whether we like it or not.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

I tend to agree. California's Republican Party is splitting at the seams over this same scenario. I'm a conservative at heart, but getting someone voted into state-wide office requires a moderate persona given the Democrat popular majority, whether we like it or not.

Jamo, I was a bit surprised at your comments about gay marriage (what they do is their business) on the other thread - and you mentioned something about being conservative enough to mind your own business.
Conservatives these days seem to think that we are best served by intrusions into our lives for 'moral' reasons.
I think most Americans would get on board with a small government, small taxes, strong military, and a 'don't bother me, I won't bother you' (foreign and domestic) platform.
The DNC is not going to run on that platform.

Steve

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Jamo, I was a bit surprised at your comments about gay marriage (what they do is their business) on the other thread - and you mentioned something about being conservative enough to mind your own business.
Conservatives these days seem to think that we are best served by intrusions into our lives for 'moral' reasons.
I think most Americans would get on board with a small government, small taxes, strong military, and a 'don't bother me, I won't bother you' (foreign and domestic) platform.
The DNC is not going to run on that platform.

Steve

You're using the Democrat's (CNN's) definition of what a conservative is.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

You're using the Democrat's (CNN's) definition of what a conservative is.

Jamo,
Actually, I was basing it more on the fine 'Conservative' folks in this forum that I have argued with frequently. These are the same ones who argued in favour of legislative interference in the Terry Shiavo case, poorly planned military adventures, worship of Israel, and restriction of certain groups they find morally offensive.

Todays current crop of 'Conservatives' seem more intent on running around getting in everybody else's business. Maybe you really are an old school Conservative (Paleo, as Freddy D. put it) - I hope so. But I also recall you mentioning that you actively campaigned for G.W. Bush, and he did not turn out to be all that Conservative.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by VRM

Jamo,
Actually, I was basing it more on the fine 'Conservative' folks in this forum that I have argued with frequently. These are the same ones who argued in favour of legislative interference in the Terry Shiavo case, poorly planned military adventures, worship of Israel, and restriction of certain groups they find morally offensive.

Todays current crop of 'Conservatives' seem more intent on running around getting in everybody else's business. Maybe you really are an old school Conservative (Paleo, as Freddy D. put it) - I hope so. But I also recall you mentioning that you actively campaigned for G.W. Bush, and he did not turn out to be all that Conservative.

Steve

Conservatives don't want to get into everyone's business, especially gays, they want people to mind they own business (and take responsibility for their own business), especially gays, and not demand more of society, for example marriage for gays. In the end, gays are after 100% acceptance of what they do behind closed doors. That's never going to happen.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by VRM

Jamo,
Actually, I was basing it more on the fine 'Conservative' folks in this forum that I have argued with frequently. These are the same ones who argued in favour of legislative interference in the Terry Shiavo case, poorly planned military adventures, worship of Israel, and restriction of certain groups they find morally offensive.

Todays current crop of 'Conservatives' seem more intent on running around getting in everybody else's business. Maybe you really are an old school Conservative (Paleo, as Freddy D. put it) - I hope so. But I also recall you mentioning that you actively campaigned for G.W. Bush, and he did not turn out to be all that Conservative.

Steve

Look, the true conservatives are the original Rainbow Coalition. They each want to live their own lives and follow their own beliefs without anyone else telling them what to do, how to spend their money or what they have to believe in. Unlike libertarians, which are akin to librarians in that they appreciate a bit of fiction, conservatives believe in their own hands, eyes and ears. For assample, coming from a farming family and having grown up trekking all over the Sierras has resulted in me being a bit of an environmentalist, but not like the wackos that live in urban centers that get close to nature by looking at coffee table books of Adams' pics or wear a t-shirt with a koala bear on it. I believe it ought to be accessible to ranchers, lumber harvesters, backpackers, responsible off-roaders and the wackos, and that we harness the snow runoff for growing crops.

As for how and who someone phuks...hey, I could give a rat's ass (not to be confused with a rat in the ass), and yes, I'm in favor of gay marriage while others aren't...so the phuk what? I'm in favor of it not as a social statement, but because I simply don't think anyone ought to be able to use marriage as a limitation on someone's right to gain or pass on benefits earned...sorta goes against my conservative (non-religious or moral) attitude, despite being an Armenian orthodox christian. Then again, what we do with our sheep is non of your damn business.

On the other hand, I'm still a bit doubtful about women getting to vote and drive...me thinks we ought to revisit that.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Look, the true conservatives are the original Rainbow Coalition. They each want to live their own lives and follow their own beliefs without anyone else telling them what to do, how to spend their money or what they have to believe in. Unlike libertarians, which are akin to librarians in that they appreciate a bit of fiction, conservatives believe in their own hands, eyes and ears. For assample, coming from a farming family and having grown up trekking all over the Sierras has resulted in me being a bit of an environmentalist, but not like the wackos that live in urban centers that get close to nature by looking at coffee table books of Adams' pics or wear a t-shirt with a koala bear on it. I believe it ought to be accessible to ranchers, lumber harvesters, backpackers, responsible off-roaders and the wackos, and that we harness the snow runoff for growing crops.

As for how and who someone phuks...hey, I could give a rat's ass (not to be confused with a rat in the ass), and yes, I'm in favor of gay marriage while others aren't...so the phuk what? I'm in favor of it not as a social statement, but because I simply don't think anyone ought to be able to use marriage as a limitation on someone's right to gain or pass on benefits earned...sorta goes against my conservative (non-religious or moral) attitude, despite being an Armenian orthodox christian. Then again, what we do with our sheep is non of your damn business.

On the other hand, I'm still a bit doubtful about women getting to vote and drive...me thinks we ought to revisit that.

Sounds like you are auditioning to ghost-write for the Meghan McCain blog. Good for you - maybe the GOP will come around a bit more to your way of thinking.
In the meantime I will have to keep voting for the people who have the most planks that I agree with - even if CdC thinks they can't win.

Denise McCluggage and Donna Mae Mims might disagree with you - but they are probably too old to drive now... probably should think about taking away drivers licenses around age 60 anyways.

Steve

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Jamo

I tend to agree. California's Republican Party is splitting at the seams over this same scenario. I'm a conservative at heart, but getting someone voted into state-wide office requires a moderate persona given the Democrat popular majority, whether we like it or not.

You nailed it - True Conservatives cannot be elected in most districts of CA, they need to campaign from the center and compromise on some issues to get elected.

I believe that 427sharpe's point was that any Conservative that doesn't measure up in all respects in discounted to nothing, so the marginal third party candidate will get his vote or perhaps he doesn't vote at all - it's all of nothing.

A lot of Conservatives have gone over the edge looking for true Conservatives candidates - those people either aren't running or lose in the current statewide and national environment. My fear is the Conservatives will be marginalized by demanding 100%. Newt is a great examble - wrong on Climate Change, so he's out in the view of some Conservatives. In my view, he'd be a perfect match to go against Obama in 2012.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

You nailed it - True Conservatives cannot be elected in most districts of CA, they need to campaign from the center and compromise on some issues to get elected.

I believe that 427sharpe's point was that any Conservative that doesn't measure up in all respects in discounted to nothing, so the marginal third party candidate will get his vote or perhaps he doesn't vote at all - it's all of nothing.

A lot of Conservatives have gone over the edge looking for true Conservatives candidates - those people either aren't running or lose in the current statewide and national environment. My fear is the Conservatives will be marginalized by demanding 100%. Newt is a great examble - wrong on Climate Change, so he's out in the view of some Conservatives. In my view, he'd be a perfect match to go against Obama in 2012.

I lived it...My Assembly and Senate districts are represented by Villines and Cogdill, and I campaigned heavily for Mike and Dave. We're probably the most conservative area of California...but, by golly, some pragmatism slipped by us.

[427sharpe]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

I believe that 427sharpe's point was that any Conservative that doesn't measure up in all respects in discounted to nothing, so the marginal third party candidate will get his vote or perhaps he doesn't vote at all - it's all of nothing.

That is incorrect, recall from my earlier post that I voted for W as the lesser of two evils. In fact I have NEVER missed a vote. I am aware that a person who agrees with me 100% is unelectable; because I realize I am unelectable! A lot of the time, we must do the best we can, and that means attempt to influence the inevitable to make it more palatable. In my case, my local, state and federal representatives all know me..whether they want to or not. I will also actively campaign for what I believe in. In the end, we all have to realize the only way to correct the course is to grab the wheel and get involved. I agree with a lot of Jamo's post...I consider myself a realistic environmentalist; I will protect the ecology but not put a breadwinner out of work to save a snail. Lastly, I think that America could stand a HUGE dose of 'Mind Your Own Damned Business'. And yes, that counts to gay marriage. While I find it objectionable personally, I have zero issue with it as long as the colon cowboys stay to their side of the rectum rodeo and leave me alone in heterosexual bliss.