Obama: US Could Go Broke Unless Healthcare Is Reformed

[cobra de capell]

So why exactly should i be responsible for paying the healthcare costs of these people?

In what way do you pay their costs, e.g. those that can afford health insurance but opt to not have it?

Now, paying the costs for those that cannot afford to pay - those that end up in emergency rooms - I see your point, but if they really cannot afford it - we end up paying anyway. Seems like Obama want them to have the same level of access that paying customers have - access levels should continue to be based on payment with everything else welfare.

[Wayne Maybury]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I purposely tried to be objective as this topic can really get people going. I have to be honest and say that it drives me nuts when I hear an American politician stating that the Canadian system is really bad because......you fill in the blanks..... We can look at any system and pick out negative aspects sort of like saying "my aunt smoked all her life and never got lung cancer so smoking doesn't cause cancer". You have to look at the overall picture. not just isolated parts.

Whether or not a universal health care system is good for the US remains to be seen but I really have to doubt that bringing it in will be a major step towards eliminating the government deficit as I have heard.

Has there been any announcement as the how the millions of illegal immigrants would be affected by this program? Every Canadian citizen has a Medicare card that is used when visiting a doctor or a hospital. Would the US issue medical cards to illegals? They would then be guaranteed free medical care once they get those cards which certainly will add to the overall bill.

Wayne

[Dan40]

There are basically 3 kinds of patients.
1.SELF PAY-- Those that have money to pay but choose not to be insured.
2.INSURED--Those covered by private insurance, individual or group coverage.
3.And those covered by a Government program or policy.

Lets say a surgery has to be done and the hospital/surgery center charges $20,000.00 for the surgery.
#1. is billed for $20,000.00 and must pay that.
#2. is also billed for $20,000.00 But he has 80/20 coverage, so he pays $4000.00. Does his insurance company pay the remaining $16,000.00? NO, they have a contract with the hospital where they agreed that surgery is worth $8000.00. so the patient pays 20% of RETAIL, $4000.00 and the insurance pays 80% of WHOLESALE, $6400.00.
#3. The Government has a schedule of benefits list and allows a certain sum for each treatment. The $20,000.00 Retail price means nothing to the Government. For the particular surgery they have a price of $2500.00. A person with 80/20 coverage [like Medicare] would pay $500.00 for this surgery if it was outpatient. Gov. would pay $2000. If the surgery was inpatient [patient was admitted and spent more than 24 hours in hospital] then the Government pays a flat rate for the admitting diagnosis. Patient pay a preset deductible only. No 80/20.

Does the system need overhaul? YES, YES, Does it need more Government NO, NO!!

Fix, not replace.

Your Cobra has bad plugs and wires. Replace the Cobra or get a tune up?

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by Dan40

There are basically 3 kinds of patients.
1.SELF PAY-- Those that have money to pay but choose not to be insured.
2.INSURED--Those covered by private insurance, individual or group coverage.
3.And those covered by a Government program or policy.

Lets say a surgery has to be done and the hospital/surgery center charges $20,000.00 for the surgery.
#1. is billed for $20,000.00 and must pay that.
#2. is also billed for $20,000.00 But he has 80/20 coverage, so he pays $4000.00. Does his insurance company pay the remaining $16,000.00? NO, they have a contract with the hospital where they agreed that surgery is worth $8000.00. so the patient pays 20% of RETAIL, $4000.00 and the insurance pays 80% of WHOLESALE, $6400.00.
#3. The Government has a schedule of benefits list and allows a certain sum for each treatment. The $20,000.00 Retail price means nothing to the Government. For the particular surgery they have a price of $2500.00. A person with 80/20 coverage [like Medicare] would pay $500.00 for this surgery if it was outpatient. Gov. would pay $2000. If the surgery was inpatient [patient was admitted and spent more than 24 hours in hospital] then the Government pays a flat rate for the admitting diagnosis. Patient pay a preset deductible only. No 80/20.

Does the system need overhaul? YES, YES, Does it need more Government NO, NO!!

Fix, not replace.

Your Cobra has bad plugs and wires. Replace the Cobra or get a tune up?

Yep, exactly! My wife had Knee surgery on halloween last year. Dr bills were around $25,000. We owe close to $4000. Her surgery was done by one of the best in the country, 1 week after diagnosis! That's the kind of healthcare I like!

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Dan40

There are basically 3 kinds of patients.
1.SELF PAY-- Those that have money to pay but choose not to be insured.
2.INSURED--Those covered by private insurance, individual or group coverage.
3.And those covered by a Government program or policy.

Lets say a surgery has to be done and the hospital/surgery center charges $20,000.00 for the surgery.
#1. is billed for $20,000.00 and must pay that.
#2. is also billed for $20,000.00 But he has 80/20 coverage, so he pays $4000.00. Does his insurance company pay the remaining $16,000.00? NO, they have a contract with the hospital where they agreed that surgery is worth $8000.00. so the patient pays 20% of RETAIL, $4000.00 and the insurance pays 80% of WHOLESALE, $6400.00.
#3. The Government has a schedule of benefits list and allows a certain sum for each treatment. The $20,000.00 Retail price means nothing to the Government. For the particular surgery they have a price of $2500.00. A person with 80/20 coverage [like Medicare] would pay $500.00 for this surgery if it was outpatient. Gov. would pay $2000. If the surgery was inpatient [patient was admitted and spent more than 24 hours in hospital] then the Government pays a flat rate for the admitting diagnosis. Patient pay a preset deductible only. No 80/20.

Does the system need overhaul? YES, YES, Does it need more Government NO, NO!!

Fix, not replace.

Your Cobra has bad plugs and wires. Replace the Cobra or get a tune up?

My insurance works very similar to what you posted as the government plan. I work for Samsung and we are Self Insured. We use the Cigna PPO network for in and out of coverage, but Cigna is not the actual insurance provider. Samsung pays Cigna an annual fee to use their services. Samsung pays all the bills and our co-pay is 10% of the agreed upon price (wholesale not retail). Just pointing out that there are variations in the 3 listed above.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

So why exactly should i be responsible for paying the healthcare costs of these people?

In what way do you pay their costs, e.g. those that can afford health insurance but opt to not have it?

Now, paying the costs for those that cannot afford to pay - those that end up in emergency rooms - I see your point, but if they really cannot afford it - we end up paying anyway. Seems like Obama want them to have the same level of access that paying customers have - access levels should continue to be based on payment with everything else welfare.

Well, I am just being basic as far as having to pay higher taxes so that those who opt to not have insurance, will have it. For the most part, I don't believe anyone should be without insurance in some form. To be without is negligence on their OWN part. I was uneployed for 11 months from June 2008 to April 2009. I was still able to make ends meet with a mortgage, 2 car payments, insurance, utilities, gas prices/Diesel prices, etc. I have 2 mortgages, 1 is rental which pays for itself, total for both car payments was $700. I worked part time, and my wife worked for her measly 25k/yr while she is going to get her RN. it's not like it wasn't tough. We had to cut things that weren't needed! Some people just need to get some priorities! there are plenty of programs in place to help people out! Most of which I didn't qualify for because I made too much in the early part of last year.

Bottom line, I really HATE the direction our contry has gone! Our Gov't has dipped into too much! They need to stay the hell out and do THEIR jobs!

I for the life of my don't understand why I will get a fine in PA for not wearing a helmet on my bicycle, yet if I were riding a harley, it's ok to be helmetless? The gov't needs to step back seriously! I didn't wear a helmet as a child, nor did my parents. I'm pretty much fine! Maybe let people make their own choices in life. if 2 dudes want to marry... WTF does it matter? Are they hurting you? Nope! If I want to drive my car without a seatbelt (which I never do, but..) why should it be for them to tell me? I know it's unsafe, and I know the consequences. if i choose to not wear it... Natural selection! No more laws that protect you from yourself!!! it's rediculous!!!! ok, I've rambled enough!

[cobra de capell]

fsstnotch

People should not be forced to maintain health insurance, but they should have to pay when something happens if they have funds. Non-citizens should be discouraged from using our health system. Also, anchor babies law should be eliminated - that will reduce the use of our system big time.

Actually the system works fine right now - just a little tweaking here and there would help, not a complete overhaul with unintended results.

[fsstnotch]

Originally Posted by cobra de capell

fsstnotch

People should not be forced to maintain health insurance, but they should have to pay when something happens if they have funds. Non-citizens should be discouraged from using our health system. Also, anchor babies law should be eliminated - that will reduce the use of our system big time.

Actually the system works fine right now - just a little tweaking here and there would help, not a complete overhaul with unintended results.

I agree.

And under no circumstances should ANY illegal be granted Social security benefits of healthcare! I have many friends whom paid good money so their wives were legal in the U.S. They feel very cheated by the current talk of illegals being allowed any rights!