Who will read the Health Care Bill ??

[4RE KLR]

Originally Posted by Dan40

Could be that one of the laws they already passed without reading, makes it illegal to read a bill before passing it. 'Vote' has been replaced by 'passed'.

ALL, D, R or I that vote for any bill without reading it should not only not be reelected but should be impeached and sent home, FOREVER, for malfeasance.



Was that close 'nuff to your topic???

Great Dan, Thanks.

I suppose I just don't understand why the people we vote into office do not take the time to read what they sign into law. It is frustrating to say the least.

[Gregg(What's his name)?]

Steve,

I will read the document. When Congress reads the Declaration of Independence!

[cobra de capell]

President Obama: "Good morning, doctor. What's it look like?"

Doctor: "Good morning, Mr. President. I'm afraid the news is not good. In fact, it's absolutely essential that we schedule the surgery for this morning. I've reserved the operating suite and a first class surgical team. They're ready to go now."

President Obama: "Now? Now? Right now?"

Doctor: "Yes, sir. In order to keep this from becoming life threatening, it's essential that we act immediately. Even the slightest delay could increase the risks unacceptably."

President Obama:"What about a review, calling in a specialist for a second opinion?"

Doctor: "Sorry, sir. No time. We need to cut, now. All your surgeons agree. Surgery is the only answer. Granted that the procedure is experimental, but we're comfortable with that. The team is expert. They've studied this for months and are very confident that they can do this."

President Obama: "And if we don't?"

Doctor: "Well, sir, we estimate that this surgery will become effective in 2013, by doing so it will prevent a complete collapse sometime after that."

President Obama: "You're telling me that I need surgery now, right this minute, that doesn't take effect for four years to prevent harm 'sometime after that' and that the procedure is an experiment and you guys have never done this before?"

Doctor: "Yes, sir, but it's a real crisis..."

President Obama, after a short but thoughtful pause: "Are you out of your friggin' mind, man?

"You want to put me under the knife, major surgery, right this minute, without a second opinion, without any preparation at all, in a procedure that won't even take effect for four years, to prevent possible damage even further down the road?

"You're nuts. Get out of here. You're a complete quack. Find me someone who knows something about medicine! Get…"

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by 4RE KLR

Isn't it ashamed that our legislators will not even agree to READ the bill before signing it into law.

http://www.letfreedomringusa.com/pledge-to-read


We should vote all their a$$es out of office.

Steve,

I think many legislators will read the bill, or at least have staff browse through it. It is unlikely that liberals will sign onto the conservative website you referenced, or have much to do with Fox news. And I suppose several conservative legislators may sign the petition without really reading it any more thoroughly than average, since it looks to be a partisan public sensation effort more than anything.

The other day, I got the below in my email, from a workplace acquaintance. I have the same insurance, and the guy lives about ten miles away.

"Considering everything I have been through, and the hell my insurance company (United Health Care) put me in by refusing payments for cancer care,heart attacks, surgeries, ambulance rides, hospitalization to withdraw from 4 years of hydromorphone shots given for pain (here, St. Alexius when United Health Care refused payment, escorted me out with their security people and put me out on the street with nothing other than my hospital pajamas to wear as my clothes had been taken home to launder). This incident by the way cost me close to $11,000.00 and was the straw that broke the camels back, forcing me to sell my home as I couldn't pay both the hospital and my mortgage without going through a bankruptcy. So, I now live in a mobilehome after 41 years of hard work, and thanks to huge hospital bills which insurance refused to pay because it was "above what was REASONABLE AND CUSTOMARY", my 401k money is gone, my home is gone, my equity in my home was used to purchase a 29 year old trailer house to allow me to pay off St. Alexius without bankruptcy.

That this crap can happen in this country is unbelievable and NOT RIGHT.What astonishes me is that people JUST LIKE ME believe that we should not go to universal healthcare like every other country in the world has. NONE OF THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED ANYWHERE ELSE BUT HERE IN THE GOOD OLD USA WHERE THE RICH ARE KINGS AND THE REST OF US ARE LIED INTO BELIEVING THAT WE DON'T DESERVE WHAT EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS, AND THAT WE HAVE THE BEST SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. WHAT A GOD DAMNED JOKE!

The happiest day of my life was when I finally went on Medicare even though I now have to pay $300.00 a month in supplemental insurance ... At least my bills are paid with no trouble, no hassles, no questions! Medicare is the best insurance I have ever had bar none, and I thought the railroad provided us with good coverage. What a joke, United Health Care denied EVERY claim. I know that is their business model, as they hope to avoid or minimize payment, and to prolong the unavoidable payments as long as they can. They simply don't care how sick you are and could care less when the hospitals and doctors are hounding you for payments they should be making. I believe they honestly hope you pay in desperation so they don't have to.

I hope you take the time to watch these PBS video's. The news media everywhere else is failing us miserably, and if you watch FOX or CNN all you are getting is insurance company talking points! Be patient, they are large files and may take a moment or two to load, but are well worth watching! I have been getting all sorts of viral emails with republican talking points against universal healthcare, and we all owe it to ourselves and our children to at least be informed honestly on the issue. These videos tell it like it is! I have been through it, and I know how bad insurance companies can be even when you believe you have good coverage! Cancer CAN AND DOES BANKRUPT A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH INSURANCE ..... IT KILLS THOUSANDS EVERY YEAR WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE, AND THAT IS A FACT!

( http://www.webegeek.net/links2/Cigna...ournalPBS.html )

( http://www.webegeek.net/links2/BillM...nglepayer.html )"

God, I wish McCain had gotten in. There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

Wes

...

[4RE KLR]

Wes,
I am not arguing that the new law would be a good thing or a bad thing. Yea, sure I see the benefits of the plan, and well yea, I see (or at least I think I see) what the Dems are trying to accomplish.

My problem is that I really don't think they will read it, in its final copy before signing it into law. OK, sure, they don't have time to read every single Bill. BS I say, if they don't have time to read it them they shouldn't sign it.

OK, They have staff to read it and give them a brief. I really have a problem with that as well. Here is why. How does the staffer know, what was discussed prior to the write-up? They don't. So, if something was added in the final write-up that was not discussed, then it would get signed into law.

OK, How big a deal can that be? I think it could be huge. We have enough bailouts and pork programs now with-out some more thrown into this bill to appease or entice someone into signing it.

I just think if they don't have the time to read it, in its entirety, then they don't have time to be our legislators and we should run them out of town on a rail.

Again just my .02.

[Art Burtt]

A buddy sent me a copy of the House bill ,it's over 1,000 pages long, I tried reading it but it's mostly "legal speak", whuch makes no sense at all. I understand there are other versions of the bill,so which one will they vote on? Most of them admit they haven't read it?? I find it interesting that on page 420 lines 13-15 the govt, will specify which doctors can write an end to life order WTF? On pg. 430 lines 11-15 Govt, will decide what level of treatment you will recieve at end of life. double WTF?? I'd say not good news for us "old" guts!!

[4RE KLR]

Art,
I was just reading it as well. Talk about confusing as all get out.

I suppose if your not from an "underepresented group" your screwed.

There is no way they will read this thing!

[4RE KLR]

Here is a direct link to the Bill.

If it works.

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/1...ext-071409.pdf

[427sharpe]

Really whats out there now is just a mashup of everything anybody in DC could dream up to stick in this beast. What will be interesting is what any FINAL version (agreed to by both houses) will look like. I have made it thru the whole thing and there is enough in there to scare the sh*t out of me.
And no, 95% of them won't read that one either! We ought to put in a trick question like they used to do on college essays..."If you vote for this and don't call 1-800-YOU-DUPE you agree to resign your seat in congress and all privileges attached thereto forever." I wonder who could get it added on....

[Wes Tausend]

Originally Posted by 427sharpe

Really whats out there now is just a mashup of everything anybody in DC could dream up to stick in this beast. What will be interesting is what any FINAL version (agreed to by both houses) will look like. I have made it thru the whole thing and there is enough in there to scare the sh*t out of me.
And no, 95% of them won't read that one either! We ought to put in a trick question like they used to do on college essays..."If you vote for this and don't call 1-800-YOU-DUPE you agree to resign your seat in congress and all privileges attached thereto forever." I wonder who could get it added on....

427,

Trick question?

Best suggestion, yet!

I think you hit Steve's original point exactly.

Wes

...

[Roscoe]

Some points from the bill:

If you have health care now you are grandfathered in. You carrier cannot write new insurance coverage for anyone. Once the bill goes into law anyone without insurance must take it or get fined.

It covers illegals

Denys or restricts treatment for elderly.

Will have access to you bank accounts for electronic withdrawals; also access to your financials.

There's much more in this bill to scare the BeJesus out of anyone.

Roscoe

[Ron61]

Simply put this bill is a disaster to anyone except Congress who is exempt from it. I believe they are getting close to constitutional problems when they start forcing all people into a socialized program and taking their money without consent to cover illegals who won't pay anything. The fine if you don't take it is a farce as they will take the money anyway. It amounts to nothing more than a vote buying scheme as the seniors will still have very limited coverage but they will have to pay for it. I guess that is what Obama meant when he said they are a drain on society and should be prepared to take the pain instead of being treated as people in health care.

Ron

[Roscoe]

The questioner's mother needed a pacemaker. But she was 100 years old. And though her doctor said she needed a pacemaker to go on, an arrhythmia specialist declined to do it because of her age and, like a government bureaucrat would, by reading her file rather than seeing her. When the arrhythmia specialist actually saw her in person - at her doctor's insistence - he changed his mind about the level of risk and went ahead. As the questioner put it, he did so when he saw "her joy of life."

Her question is essentially about care for the elderly, the removal of personal care and the weight of impending additional impersonal bureaucracy under Obama's government health care takeover plan. His answer is a plate of spaghetti. With a side of painkillers.

Question: "Outside the medical criteria for prolonging the life of someone who is elderly, is there any consideration that can be given for a certain spirit, a certain joy of living, or quality of life; or is it just a medical cut off at a certain age?"

President Obama: "Yeah, we're not gonna solve every difficult problem in terms of end of life care. A lot of that is going to have to be we as a culture and a society making better decisions within our own families and for ourselves. But what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that is not making anybody's mom better that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not going to improve care, that at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what, maybe this isn't gonna help. Maybe you're better off not taking the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Roscoe

The questioner's mother needed a pacemaker. But she was 100 years old. And though her doctor said she needed a pacemaker to go on, an arrhythmia specialist declined to do it because of her age and, like a government bureaucrat would, by reading her file rather than seeing her. When the arrhythmia specialist actually saw her in person - at her doctor's insistence - he changed his mind about the level of risk and went ahead. As the questioner put it, he did so when he saw "her joy of life."

Her question is essentially about care for the elderly, the removal of personal care and the weight of impending additional impersonal bureaucracy under Obama's government health care takeover plan. His answer is a plate of spaghetti. With a side of painkillers.

Question: "Outside the medical criteria for prolonging the life of someone who is elderly, is there any consideration that can be given for a certain spirit, a certain joy of living, or quality of life; or is it just a medical cut off at a certain age?"

President Obama: "Yeah, we're not gonna solve every difficult problem in terms of end of life care. A lot of that is going to have to be we as a culture and a society making better decisions within our own families and for ourselves. But what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that is not making anybody's mom better that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not going to improve care, that at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what, maybe this isn't gonna help. Maybe you're better off not taking the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

This exchange was on Hannity last night, comes from an Obama Townhall meeting.

The interesting thing is that if doctors/hospitals withhold treatment or tests at any level of sickness - what will happen when the attorney's get involved? Without tort reform the implementation of this bill will be a disaster.

One thing is for sure, Obama's health care talking points and the truth are purely accidental. The talking points that Obama endlessly yammers are poll-tested attributions of a plan that the public would support. They do not subsist in any Democratic plan being written in Congress or that will be supported by Obama.

[Roscoe]

[Dan40]

With the Global Warming problems, will there be enough ice floes to put us old people on after the Health Care bill passes?????????

[Ron61]

Dan,

I thought they were going to claim Global Warming as the cause of aging. It has been blamed for everything else so far.

Ron

[4RE KLR]

I REALLY like the trick question idea.

OK,
Let's take that one step further and say what really does happen in these massive spending bills. Come one, that is what it really is, it is just described to us Dumb Taxpayers (yea, right) as a health care plan.

Lets say on page 937 for example it states that "All Americans, are now indebted to Barney Frank(s) fir one million dollars a year for the remainder of his life. If He should predecease you, then the funds are payable to his estate"

Sound stupid? Yea, OK I agree.

But how many Americans know that a certain kind of beans have to be served in the White House cafeteria every Thursday because someone slipped it in as a line item before a bill got signed into law over 100 years ago!

There is no way they'll read it.


I also agree that this is a first draft and a wish list.

[4RE KLR]

Her is another problem I have with it (among many)

In America, there are whole families living under bridges, in State Parks, in their cars and so on. But according to this health care plan they have to buy health care, BEFORE they locate housing or be fined. They do not have a place to live but will be forced to buy health acre first.

What is wrong with that? Are you kidding me?

"Oh, why yes sir, we have Health Insurance and it gets paid before my children have food on the table. I am sorry there is no funds left to put a roof over their little heads"

____

May I help you?

Yes, I need to get my car inspected.

Ok, I need proof of health care......



It could happen!

[cobra de capell]

Dear Senator/Congressman _________,

President Obama has often cited the (dubious) number of 46 million Americans without health INSURANCE as his justification for completely revamping America’s healthcare system. Of that 46 million figure cited, approximately half are believed to be people who voluntarily choose not to BUY health insurance. When I was younger, I also voluntarily opted NOT to BUY health INSURANCE!!

So, my question to you is this: In a country of over 300 million Americans, why does the Congress feel the need to completely disrupt the health care system as it currently exists, because an estimated 46 million people cannot or will not BUY health insurance? Why is the president and the Congress discussing an overpriced, “one-size-fits-all” plan that affects ALL Americans in order to accommodate a handful of Americans??

I look forward to your reply.