NBC Cash 4 Clunker4s score

[Dan40]

According to NBC, not Fox, the C4C program has now used up $1.9 Billion of its $1 + $2 Billion funding. Only $1.1 Billion remains in the program and Washington says this time it will not be renewed.

That sounds like a highly successful program. There is a slight glitch however. While dealers have sold enough cars to qualify for $1.9 Billion in reimbursement.

SO FAR, THEY HAVE RECEIVED $145 MILLION in reimbursements.

Wonder how many are renting space to store Clunkers, and how terribly happy they are about that.

[turnpike boy]

And the bleeding hearts in here think this administration can run health care

They can't even get the money out to pay off debts they have money for.

This is how they're gonna make our economy prosper? - God help us all.

[Bartruff1]

Seems reasonable to me that it might take some time to establish the process and controls to process some 500,000 transactions and issue payments to thousands of dealers....the unceasing cheap shots at Obama in here makes me think that hate and bigotry is playing a large role . I don't happen to be a Bleeding Heart. Like most Americans I am right of center and believe in small and efficient gov...balanced budgets....priority spending...no earmarks... market solutions...personal responsibility...states rights...and yes the right to bear arms...but after 50 years of voting Republican I found myself in a party of jesus freaks, gun nuts and a variety of bigots. I don't agree with President Obama's policies...his budget...the stimulus...tarp... universal health Insurance... the Cash for Clunkers....but neither do I think he is evil incarnate ... that he is not a citizen...or that he is a Nazi/Fascist/Commi pinko islamist terrorist. If you are getting your opinions from Faux or talk radio I would suspect you lack critical thinking skills. Even OReilly opined that if you cannot find one ...not one.. good thing to say about Obama you are not credible . I think he is a brilliant, articulate, earnest, well intentioned young man that has a very different view of the role of government than I do.. and that he deserves to be treated fairly just as Bush did..my two cents..

[turnpike boy]

How much time is reasonable, Bart? This program has been underway for...what?...3 weeks now? Are you saying it's reasonable for those dealers to wait week after week for reimbursement? That it's OK for them to have to finance the Administration's Great Ideas?

When's the last time the IRS was willing to finance you? Or Medicare? Or Social Security? Or your state?

Yeah, there are some who are bigoted and full of hatred for Obama, some in here too. In the main, however, there are a whole lot more of us who are truly sick and tired of having ideas rammed down our throats, by demagogues who think they're simply so much smarter than the rest of us that they can decide best. This has NOTHING to do with Repubs or Demos or Independents - this has EVERYTHING to do with out-of-touch, arrogant, let-them-eat-cake politicians, of whom Obama has surrounded himself. So did Bush before him, although to a lesser degree (Cheney nothwithstanding).

Obama may indeed be a "brilliant, articulate, earnest, well intentioned young man that has a very different view of the role of government", but that does NOT entitle him to commandeer your income (or the dealers) to enable his vision. As a man and an individual, he is worthy of the respect any of us deserves - but more will have to be earned, and you don't get that by force.

Which is largely why the Left hated Bush so intensely. Same reasons. And if Bush was treated fairly, then so is Obama - critical observation of any politicians' actions is an obligation of us all. The derision and disrespect hurled at Bush on nearly galactic proportions can equally be decried. A dead horse now.

Obama is compromised by the Reid's and the Pelosi's and Kennedy's.....ad nauseam. Repubs are no less abhorrent. It just happens at this time that HE's the one in charge, so what do you expect? - the grass is always greener, and he did ask for the job.

BTW, it is a difficult equation to pare up an absence of faith in Government's ability to run a program the size of health care with your statement that many see Obama as "evil incarnate". Hopefully you don't perceive the town hall meetings as drummed up too - then the critical thinking aspect might need to be revisited.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by turnpike boy

How much time is reasonable, Bart? This program has been underway for...what?...3 weeks now? Are you saying it's reasonable for those dealers to wait week after week for reimbursement? That it's OK for them to have to finance the Administration's Great Ideas?

When's the last time the IRS was willing to finance you? Or Medicare? Or Social Security? Or your state?

Yeah, there are some who are bigoted and full of hatred for Obama, some in here too. In the main, however, there are a whole lot more of us who are truly sick and tired of having ideas rammed down our throats, by demagogues who think they're simply so much smarter than the rest of us that they can decide best. This has NOTHING to do with Repubs or Demos or Independents - this has EVERYTHING to do with out-of-touch, arrogant, let-them-eat-cake politicians, of whom Obama has surrounded himself. So did Bush before him, although to a lesser degree (Cheney nothwithstanding).

Obama may indeed be a "brilliant, articulate, earnest, well intentioned young man that has a very different view of the role of government", but that does NOT entitle him to commandeer your income (or the dealers) to enable his vision. As a man and an individual, he is worthy of the respect any of us deserves - but more will have to be earned, and you don't get that by force.

Which is largely why the Left hated Bush so intensely. Same reasons. And if Bush was treated fairly, then so is Obama - critical observation of any politicians' actions is an obligation of us all. The derision and disrespect hurled at Bush on nearly galactic proportions can equally be decried. A dead horse now.

Obama is compromised by the Reid's and the Pelosi's and Kennedy's.....ad nauseam. Repubs are no less abhorrent. It just happens at this time that HE's the one in charge, so what do you expect? - the grass is always greener, and he did ask for the job.

BTW, it is a difficult equation to pare up an absence of faith in Government's ability to run a program the size of health care with your statement that many see Obama as "evil incarnate". Hopefully you don't perceive the town hall meetings as drummed up too - then the critical thinking aspect might need to be revisited.

No one forced the dealers to participate...the association is very happy with the program... I think months would be reasonable.. Bush was definetely not treated fairly and not only by the left...his second term was quite good...Yes, Obama has to control Ried and Pelosi ...they are irresponsible and personify everything...EVERYTHING that is wrong in Congress .. I don't think Kennedy will be a problem... I watched Barney's town hall meeting on C Span and the questions that were questions and asked civilized manner recieved a similar reply....the others (the ones on Cable) also got a appropriate reply... if I made my judment of the town halls on the news coverage, I would say they were full of semi dangerous nutcakes...but that is a distorted picture. They were really very good and useful. I don't believe the gov can do a good job of managing health care...they don't have the resources to manage Medicare....as far as taxes go, my federal tax rate is less than 10% because of the loopholes for capital gains and losses, deductions for everything under the sun...ect...and yes I am in his target group and that doesn't concern me... did I miss something ?

[cobra de capell]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Seems reasonable to me that it might take some time to establish the process and controls to process some 500,000 transactions and issue payments to thousands of dealers....the unceasing cheap shots at Obama in here makes me think that hate and bigotry is playing a large role . I don't happen to be a Bleeding Heart. Like most Americans I am right of center and believe in small and efficient gov...balanced budgets....priority spending...no earmarks... market solutions...personal responsibility...states rights...and yes the right to bear arms...but after 50 years of voting Republican I found myself in a party of jesus freaks, gun nuts and a variety of bigots. I don't agree with President Obama's policies...his budget...the stimulus...tarp... universal health Insurance... the Cash for Clunkers....but neither do I think he is evil incarnate ... that he is not a citizen...or that he is a Nazi/Fascist/Commi pinko islamist terrorist. If you are getting your opinions from Faux or talk radio I would suspect you lack critical thinking skills. Even OReilly opined that if you cannot find one ...not one.. good thing to say about Obama you are not credible . I think he is a brilliant, articulate, earnest, well intentioned young man that has a very different view of the role of government than I do.. and that he deserves to be treated fairly just as Bush did..my two cents..

Sounds like liberal talking points. Dealers are hurting - on top of that they cannot get paid by the feds - in the billions.....sounds like the feds cannot run additional programs, period.

By the way, Obama is a nice socialist young man. I'm not sure about the nice part.

[RAZOR]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

Seems reasonable to me that it might take some time to establish the process and controls to process some 500,000 transactions and issue payments to thousands of dealers....the unceasing cheap shots at Obama in here makes me think that hate and bigotry is playing a large role . I don't happen to be a Bleeding Heart. Like most Americans I am right of center and believe in small and efficient gov...balanced budgets....priority spending...no earmarks... market solutions...personal responsibility...states rights...and yes the right to bear arms...but after 50 years of voting Republican I found myself in a party of jesus freaks, gun nuts and a variety of bigots. I don't agree with President Obama's policies...his budget...the stimulus...tarp... universal health Insurance... the Cash for Clunkers....but neither do I think he is evil incarnate ... that he is not a citizen...or that he is a Nazi/Fascist/Commi pinko islamist terrorist. If you are getting your opinions from Faux or talk radio I would suspect you lack critical thinking skills. Even OReilly opined that if you cannot find one ...not one.. good thing to say about Obama you are not credible . I think he is a brilliant, articulate, earnest, well intentioned young man that has a very different view of the role of government than I do.. and that he deserves to be treated fairly just as Bush did..my two cents..

Absolutely ridiculous to say people are motivated by hate and are bigots.If you truly believe in the principles you listed you should understand the opposition to his agenda. Then your characterization of the Republicans, betrays your self styled assessment of being right of center. It is evident from the emotional name calling and labeling you employ in one sentence then condemn it in the next.
Right of center is a subjective term, and for you to say Bush was treated fairly and and that Obama isn't would lead me to the opinion that you are maybe a little left of center, well to be more exact left of Harry Reid
I could care less of how well intentioned he is when he drops the ball like he has on this program. He repeatedly has said we cant delay in passing any of his legislation/programs they are too important for the survival of the universe.Now we have small business suffering with cash flow problems, because this administration cant get their act together.Exactly what a majority of the people believe will happen with health care if the government gets involved, but then we are dealing with peoples lives not cars.
Your touchy feely defense of Obama is certainly not critical thinking. It is though just how many on the left think. Feeling before thinking.My God he is leader of the free world this is not supposed to be on the job training.

[Excaliber]

...emotional name calling and labeling...

Nah, that couldn't possibly be a problem here in the Lounge!

Celby, as I understand the YEAR MODELS chosen for the program it was those that had verifiable EPA mpg ratings. Which I guess started somewhere around 1985.

[Joe Wicked]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Nah, that couldn't possibly be a problem here in the Lounge!

Celby, as I understand the YEAR MODELS chosen for the program it was those that had verifiable EPA mpg ratings. Which I guess started somewhere around 1985.

That would be reasonable if the EPA ratings were anything you could rely on. They are just as political as anything else. We used to have a Ford Focus with EPA rating of 32MPG HWY. I still have my 03 Mustang GT with lower gears, exhaust, chip reprogram and intake change that was originally rated at 22 MPG HWY. Problem is I got 26 MPG HWY in the Focus and the GT with it's mods gets 26MPG HWY. Those numbers are real calculations with me driving.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by RAZOR

Absolutely ridiculous to say people are motivated by hate and are bigots.If you truly believe in the principles you listed you should understand the opposition to his agenda. Then your characterization of the Republicans, betrays your self styled assessment of being right of center. It is evident from the emotional name calling and labeling you employ in one sentence then condemn it in the next.
Right of center is a subjective term, and for you to say Bush was treated fairly and and that Obama isn't would lead me to the opinion that you are maybe a little left of center, well to be more exact left of Harry Reid
I could care less of how well intentioned he is when he drops the ball like he has on this program. He repeatedly has said we cant delay in passing any of his legislation/programs they are too important for the survival of the universe.Now we have small business suffering with cash flow problems, because this administration cant get their act together.Exactly what a majority of the people believe will happen with health care if the government gets involved, but then we are dealing with peoples lives not cars.
Your touchy feely defense of Obama is certainly not critical thinking. It is though just how many on the left think. Feeling before thinking.My God he is leader of the free world this is not supposed to be on the job training.

Yo Momma...let me ...see...yes I believe SOME people motivated by hate and are bigots....I believe Bush was treated UNFAIRLY.. not only by the left ....I think the conservative movement is very much alive and well and represents the character of the American people....the Republican Party has lost it's way and is full of nutcakes..again, I DON"T believe the Gov can or should run a universal health care program, neither do I believe there will be a bill to that effect ... I don't see anything " touchey or feely " about my discription of Obama, but I could add that he and his family are charming and very attractive, how is that ? Warm and Fuzzy... I have NO respect for Harry Ried or his policies ... I believe the Leader of the Free World is very much learning on the Job (most do).... I also believe that that you need to read more carefully.....I also believe you owe me a apology for misquoting my post.... believe me, I could care less about what you think of my political views but I don't appreciate you implying that I am a liar.... If you want to meet half way and resolve this, let me know .....but for now, have a nice day..

[RAZOR]

Where do you feel I called you a liar or misquoted you? You are an emotional one! I said some things were subjective, or characterized in a certain way but I didn't call you a liar.

[elmariachi]

I think the C4C criticisms are fair. Our government is not equipped to administer these types of large-scale, quickly-conceived programs, not to mention that we shouldn't even be meddling in the free market in the first place. This underscores how little the Obama team knows about running a fiscally sound business. They are making promises and blowing money with no idea how to make it all work logistically. I talked to the sales manager at the local Ford dealer last weekend to see if they were in the program and and they said they were suspending the program until they got paid...they are owed for 41 transactions and have been paid ZERO. Nice.

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

the unceasing cheap shots at Obama in here makes me think that hate and bigotry is playing a large role .

Given that we are all here because of a common love of Cobras, can we at least agree to STOP trying to attribute our criticisms and opposing views of Obama in these threads to race and bigotry? Every time someone criticizes him, it can't be because we disagree with his decisions, its because we are bigots or racists. I don't dislike him because he is black, I dislike him because he represents things I don't stand for and is unqualified for the role. I don't criticize him because he's black, I criticize him because I have fundamental differences with what he is trying to do.

[Scott S]

My daughters boyfriend had dinner with us last night he said the dealership he sales for is owed over a million has yet to be paid for any. He also tells us there are several dealerships in Portland that were so close to the margin if the government doesn't pay up in the next several weeks they will be forced to close.

What is never mentioned is the cost of managing this program, if this is the usual government contract somebody is getting 10-15% right of the top, anybody know who it is?

Scott S

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Scott S

...he sales for is owed over a million has yet to be paid for any. He also tells us there are several dealerships in Portland that were so close to the margin if the government doesn't pay up in the next several weeks they will be forced to close.Scott S

I own equity in a private franchised auto dealership. The average gross sales profit on a new car transaction, including financing, is about $1200. If after all costs are washed out, if the Fed owed the dealer $4500 on a C4C transaction, that means the dealership needs $3300 of the $4500 to be IN THE BANK just to break even on that deal. Again, neither the Obama administration, nor any of the people claiming that this is "bailing out the auto industry" really know what they are talking about. It might be driving more Corollas sales, but if the remaining dealers go broke executing on it, how is that good for business? Is that "creating jobs?"

[elmariachi]

These two articles below were side by side at NADA.org, further demonstrating his disconnect with reality. How much anaylsys needs to be conducted for fraud? Days? Why was a portion of that responsibility not pushed out on the dealer? You cut the VIN tag off of the clunker and submit it and the title with the application, end of story. :

Two-Thirds of Dealers Waiting for First Clunker Check

DETROIT -- About two-thirds of dealers responding to an Automotive News survey this week have received no payment from the U.S. government for their cash-for-clunkers sales. Payment has been received for fewer than 3 percent of total deals, survey respondents said. The resulting cash crimp is hurting their dealerships, many dealers said. About one-quarter of the respondents said cash-flow problems are serious enough to put their businesses at risk or to require that they borrow money to cover the shortages.
Source: Automotive News


Clunker Delays Not 'Extraordinary,' Says Obama

President Barack Obama said [Thursday] that there have not been "extraordinary delays" in the processing of dealers' cash-for-clunkers claims and that the government has to be scrupulous in reviewing them to avoid fraud. "This is actually a high-class problem to have -- that we're selling too many cars too quickly, and there's some backlog in the application process," Obama said in a radio interview released by the White House.
Source: Automotive News

[purespeed]

Seems reasonable to me that it might take some time to establish the process and controls to process some 500,000 transactions and issue payments to thousands of dealers....the unceasing cheap shots at Obama in here makes me think that hate and bigotry is playing a large role .

The cheap shots here can't be any factor in how the "Cash for Clunkers" is managed. That was entirely set up by the present administration. The program is what it is...it stands by itself...it will prove itself to be a winner or not.

but after 50 years of voting Republican I found myself in a party of jesus freaks, gun nuts and a variety of bigots.

Again, Jesus freaks, gun nuts and a variety of bigots either buy cars or they don't. The management of that program is run by the present administration and not by bigoted Jesus freaks or gun nuts.

I think he is a brilliant, articulate, earnest, well intentioned young man that has a very different view of the role of government than I do.. and that he deserves to be treated fairly just as Bush did..my two cents..

While you are a Republican with a great deal of admiration for Obama, you are not the problem for him. He has a "filibuster proof congress" that is struggling to put through his HealthCare bill. His problems are on the liberal side...he's losing them.

The liberal talk radio "AIR AMERICA" has labeled Obama as a "FASCIST" because of his behind closed doors drug deal. Those are pretty strong words.

The liberal of liberals, Cindy Sheehan has developed as a sore for Obama with her nonsensical attacks:

However, while the so-called left is obsessed over supporting a very crappy Democratic health care plan, people in far away countries are being deprived of their health and very lives by the Obama Regime’s continuation of Bush’s ruinous foreign policy.

I was never dismayed when the so-called right attacked me and called me names for protesting Bush. However, something inside me gets a little sick when I hear people who claim to be peace activists supporting the Obama Administration’s foreign policy, a policy that is not like Bush’s in the fact that it’s much worse.

There are many people in this country who oppose Obama because they’re racist, but I am not one of them. I oppose Obama’s policies because they are wrong…again, period!

The war supporters aren’t going to protest Obama’s wars. They are strangely silent over his foreign policy, unless they are praising it.

Obama does not need to fear the right wing wackos....everybody knows where they're at. It's the emerging liberals that are slowly beginning to turn away fom Obama.

Just my 4 cents (inflation)

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

These two articles below were side by side at NADA.org, further demonstrating his disconnect with reality. How much anaylsys needs to be conducted for fraud? Days? Why was a portion of that responsibility not pushed out on the dealer? You cut the VIN tag off of the clunker and submit it and the title with the application, end of story. :

Two-Thirds of Dealers Waiting for First Clunker Check

DETROIT -- About two-thirds of dealers responding to an Automotive News survey this week have received no payment from the U.S. government for their cash-for-clunkers sales. Payment has been received for fewer than 3 percent of total deals, survey respondents said. The resulting cash crimp is hurting their dealerships, many dealers said. About one-quarter of the respondents said cash-flow problems are serious enough to put their businesses at risk or to require that they borrow money to cover the shortages.
Source: Automotive News


Clunker Delays Not 'Extraordinary,' Says Obama

President Barack Obama said [Thursday] that there have not been "extraordinary delays" in the processing of dealers' cash-for-clunkers claims and that the government has to be scrupulous in reviewing them to avoid fraud. "This is actually a high-class problem to have -- that we're selling too many cars too quickly, and there's some backlog in the application process," Obama said in a radio interview released by the White House.
Source: Automotive News

I was always opposed to the program, it was the NADA and AMA that lobbied for it and further lobbied to extend it. I suspect they asked and were told about a estimated payment schedule and I suspect they informed the Dealers ...I didn't read enabling leg. but the Congress usually has a dozen hoops for the Agency to go thru....it was a f'ing voluntary progam... I never said everyone was a bigot...if you are not, no offense was intended...so why take any.... I'm done ...ps... hey, Scott, I will be at Pumpkin Ridge all next week if you want a beer and to solve all the worlds problems...

[SP01715]

The government was supposed to pay within 10 days, that is the "reasonable" time. Anyone that thinks waiting for 6-7 figure payments is not a problem has never owned a business.

[Bartruff1]

Originally Posted by SP01715

The government was supposed to pay within 10 days, that is the "reasonable" time. Anyone that thinks waiting for 6-7 figure payments is not a problem has never owned a business.

If I may ask, what is the source for the " pay within 10 days" number ?

[Excaliber]

I never heard that 10 day thing either, sounds very suspicious. I hear GM is fronting the money to dealers in anticipation of getting reimbursed from the Guv. Smart move on their part. I was interested in ONE new car in particular and considered the C4C program for my Grand Cherokee. But the dealer said they were not going to participate, their choice, I walked.

Cost/benefit analysis? Thats a tough one, it's easy to say it's a flawed program, to many delays, blah blah. Cost to much for what it did for the country? I don't know, without access to enough "data points" on the auto manufacturers, job's picture, economy in general I don't think any of us are in a position to say with some authority, yeah or neah on the subject. Speculation runs rampant, "rumor has it" abounds, hard facts will be like nailing jello to a wall. We may never know the end results, perhaps it's just another brick in the wall of rebuilding the economic fundamentals?

One thing is clear, Obama inherited this mess, who caused it is a long and winding road of endless finger pointing. To do nothing only exaperates the problem, C4C appears to be a step in the right direction.